SDA and Imaging

deronb1

Is a loss of imaging a trade off for the sda effect? My 8Ts imaged much better. For example, with the 8Ts, Norah Jones sounded like she was coming out of the center channel. Now I can hear her out of both speakers. Just doesnt sound the same

dcoil

Wow, my SDA's image much better than anything I've listened to. I take it from your sig that the SDA's are the modded 2B's? These should sound pretty good... What Norah Jones track? If I have it I'll listen on my SRS's and let you know what I hear.

deronb1

dcoil wrote: »

Wow, my SDA's image much better than anything I've listened to. I take it from your sig that the SDA's are the modded 2B's? These should sound pretty good... What Norah Jones track? If I have it I'll listen on my SRS's and let you know what I hear.

Its "Come Away With Me". Doesnt sound bad. Not sure if its something else in my system goin on

smglbrth

With my 2A's it depends on the music itself. Much of Fleetwood Mac's music has the voices coming from different areas in the soundstage, most others are directly in the center. With my 8t's (and 7C's) most voices usually come from the center regardless of what I'm listening to. Could be speaker positioning maybe? The 2A's are a tad over 7ft apart with, at least, the same on both outsides...

deronb1

2Bs are about 5.5 ft apart. Its the farthest i can get them. I am using my pio as a pre now. That may have something to do with it. But even on pure direct mode, just doesnt seem to image right

ambiophonics

I've never been able to an extremely focused center image with my SDA-2's. Don't get me wrong, they image wonderfully but it's just slightly fuzzy when compared to some of my other setups, The soundstage however is immense and incredibly engaging.

deronb1

ambiophonics wrote: »

I've never been able to an extremely focused center image with my SDA-2's. Don't get me wrong, they image wonderfully but it's just slightly fuzzy when compared to some of my other setups, The soundstage however is immense and incredibly engaging.

Yes it is a huge soundstage that i enjoy listening to. Just a bit different.

schwarcw

Norah Jones is right in the center of my SRS 2.3 soundstage. Her voice in that recording is a little forward but always in the center on all tracks. I am surprised that it's not in the center.

How much space do you have between the outer sides of your speakers and the wall? I'm wondering if you have some reflection issues.

F1nut

She's dead center on mine. I'd say you and ambiophonics either have some set up issues or something is wrong with the speakers. Among other things, a strong center image is a trademark of the SDA's.

Have you guys checked for proper polarity on your speakers? The red binding post should be on the left as you look at the back.

heiney9

She floats dead center on my 1C's. I owned 11T's before my 1C's and while the 11T's did a good the job, the SDA's are better in every respect and the imaging is superb. Be sure you are sitting dead center, if you are off center even by a little the soundstage will collapse a bit the farther off center you move.

Otherwise it's a setup issue or a malfunction of some sort.

H9

Dawgfish

Yep, I was playing this last night on my SRS 2s and she is definitely dead center and sharply defined. I would look at speaker set-up.

heiney9

ambiophonics wrote: »

I've never been able to an extremely focused center image with my SDA-2's. Don't get me wrong, they image wonderfully but it's just slightly fuzzy when compared to some of my other setups, The soundstage however is immense and incredibly engaging.

One of the strongest characteristics of my SDA's is the pinpoint placement and delineation of voices and instruments with the right recording. The depth is sometimes startling to me. No fuzzy images. I'd say pretty vivid. In some regards SDA's remind of Maggies. The Maggies are still more transparent and real, but the SDA's are in the same ballpark as far as creating a truly holographic and "real" image of whatever recording. Your mileage will vary greatly depending on how something was recorded, but that goes for Maggies too.

H9

heiney9

Gear makes a big difference as well. As I moved up the ladder over the years both with gear and cables, the SDA's improved markedly in the very area's some you guys say is lacking in your set-up. Just something to think about.

H9

deronb1

I noticed better imaging with the parasound pre. Now that I am using the Pio as a pre, it has seemed to go away. Even on direct mode the speakers dont image as well. Everything looks like it is hooked up right, polarity is good. I have about 6 ft from one wall and 4 ft from another. I will tinker around with it.

Dawgfish

deronb1 wrote: »

I noticed better imaging with the parasound pre. Now that I am using the Pio as a pre, it has seemed to go away. Even on direct mode the speakers dont image as well. Everything looks like it is hooked up right, polarity is good. I have about 6 ft from one wall and 4 ft from another. I will tinker around with it.

When I got my first pair of SDAs, a set of SDA 1Cs, I had them set-up in my home theater system as my mains. I was using a Denon reciever as my pre and was running a seperate amp to power them. In that set-up, the SDAs were a little disappointing. The SDA effect was minimal no matter what setting I tried. I really didn't get what all the fuss was about.

I then built a dedicated two channel set-up around them using an Anthem Pre 1L tube pre and a B&K ST202 amp. When I first heard the SDAs in this set-up my first thoughts were holy crap! The SDA effect was there in all it's glory. I think going to a dedicated two channel pre will help tremendously.

As Brock elluded to cables, tube selection (if you're running tube gear), and gear all have a profound effect on the imaging of the SDAs. The imaging of my SRS 2s is as good or at least in the same ball park as the pair of Maggie MMGs I own with my current set-up. Imaging is very precise. I find the sound-stage depth to be deeper with the Maggies, but soundstage width is much wider with the SDAs. I love both of them. I got off track but the point is with proper set-up and gear, imaging on SDAs is spot-on.

deronb1

Yeah i probably shouldnt have sold.the parasound pre lol. I am trying to streamline my system a bit. I do the 2Bs for HT though. I am gonna hook up my tube buffer between the pio and the parasound and see what happens

zingo

deronb1 wrote: »

I am gonna hook up my tube buffer between the pio and the parasound and see what happens

As much as I love tubes, this won't change any issues you have, and probably won't even change the sound. It sounds like running the Pioneer as your pre is not helping the imaging, and that's where I would focus.

deronb1

zingo wrote: »

As much as I love tubes, this won't change any issues you have, and probably won't even change the sound. It sounds like running the Pioneer as your pre is not helping the imaging, and that's where I would focus.

Well crap. I sold the pre to streamline my system. I think I might go ahead and sell the SDAs. I have had my eye of a pair of B&W 604 s3 that probably wont be so finicky.

nooshinjohn

deronb1 wrote: »

I noticed better imaging with the parasound pre. Now that I am using the Pio as a pre, it has seemed to go away. Even on direct mode the speakers dont image as well. Everything looks like it is hooked up right, polarity is good. I have about 6 ft from one wall and 4 ft from another. I will tinker around with it.

I have used my SC37 as a pre, and did not like the sound from pure direct. Re-run the Mcacc setup and use those parameters for two channel. It will sound MUCH better. I would also make certain the speakers are placed exactly the same from each corner of the room. if you have 4 feet from wall"A" you should have the same from wall"B"...

deronb1

nooshinjohn wrote: »

I have used my SC37 as a pre, and did not like the sound from pure direct. Re-run the Mcacc setup and use those parameters for two channel. It will sound MUCH better. I would also make certain the speakers are placed exactly the same from each corner of the room. if you have 4 feet from wall"A" you should have the same from wall"B"...

Thanks for the info. My placement is limited in this room. I have it the best i can i think. I have run mcaac after i made the 2Bs the fronts. Stereo mode does sound much fuller. I have the restorer mode on and get a much better low end in stereo

heiney9

I didn't realize you were using an AVR for a pre, not the best for sure. Also didn't know this was part of an HT set-up also not the best. I can see why they don't perform as well as they should. I understand about having to compromise, etc but in this case you are also getting compromised sound.

H9

dudeinaroom

dedicated pre pro is the way to go. I use my SDAs in ht and 2ch. I have the preouts from the avr running into the vcr inputs my pre(which is running passive mode) and crank the volume on the pre for ht stuff. If it is 2ch, the AVR is off and the the pre does what it is supposed to. AVRs are not always the best choice fro 2ch, I hate my Denon for 2ch, but for ht it rocks.

nspindel

I have always believed that integrating HT with 2-channel leads to compromised 2-channel sound quality. I used to have an integrated system, and I've heard lots of others, and have heard lots of impressive surround sound, but never impressive 2-channel. As my tastes have evolved, I definitely prioritize 2-channel over HT, so next year when we move to an apartment an will only have room for one system, I'm planning on keeping my 2-channel system isolated. I'll just get a surround bar for HT. I prefer to make my sacrifices on the HT side.

Drenis

nspindel wrote: »

I have always believed that integrating HT with 2-channel leads to compromised 2-channel sound quality. I used to have an integrated system, and I've heard lots of others, and have heard lots of impressive surround sound, but never impressive 2-channel. As my tastes have evolved, I definitely prioritize 2-channel over HT, so next year when we move to an apartment an will only have room for one system, I'm planning on keeping my 2-channel system isolated. I'll just get a surround bar for HT. I prefer to make my sacrifices on the HT side.

Thats what I did.

deronb1

I am already looking for another pre lol. Looking to spend aronnd 200 with a remote.and 12v trigger if anyone has any suggestions

smglbrth

IMO, which usually doesn't matter much, I'd look into a warmer sounding pre with that Parasound (as I'm guessing it's the one in your signature). NAD, B&K maybe...

deronb1

smglbrth wrote: »

IMO, which usually doesn't matter much, I'd look into a warmer sounding pre with that Parasound (as I'm guessing it's the one in your signature). NAD, B&K maybe...

Those B&K Reference 20, 30 etc, are pretty reasonable on ebay. Even though they are for HT, I am wondering how they would do for 2 ch.

nooshinjohn

The Sunfire Cinema preamps are very good at two channel audio as well, and they have a phono stage that is pretty nice.

never heard one, but for the price, the Krell Showcase is interesting as well...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Krell-Showcase-7-1-processor-/290927567830?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item43bca263d6

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sunfire-Theater-Grand-Processor-II-by-Carver-/130928769381?pt=US_Home_Audio_Amplifiers_Preamps&hash=item1e7bf67965

deronb1

Ooooooh Sunfire....i forgot all about them. Isnt there a bob carver relation there?

nooshinjohn

deronb1 wrote: »

Ooooooh Sunfire....i forgot all about them. Isnt there a bob carver relation there?

Welll DUHHHHH!!!!:cheesygrin::cheesygrin:

LMAO... yes Bob started Sunfire.

deronb1

Sorrrrrreeee. Sheesh! Lol. Sounds like.a plan!