Totally Tubular

Mikey081057

So I bought me a Yaqin MC100B last February. I've been listening to it and am very impressed, but I had 2 issues with it.

1 It was a little noisy (tube amps can be a little noisier than SS amps for sure)

2 I was expecting the sound to be a little bigger... more musical.

So I started doing some research on rolling the stock tubes and started reading, and reading... and I read some more.

I only wanted to do this once, and didn't want to go the trial and error route, and I didn't want to overkill the amp, and my cash situation, but was willing to invest in good tubes at a good price.. In other words I wanted good value for this investment.

I purchased and received today from China a matched quad of Shuguang KT-88's 50 years treasures, a matched quad of Shuguang 50 years trasures CV-181's and a matched/balanced pair of Mullard 12AX7 reissues (These came from a local US guy)

All in I popped for about $550 for all 10 tubes into my Yaqin (which may be considered by some to have achieved overkill).

I bought the Shuguangs from a guy named Hanshare on ebay, and got them in like 3 days from China... He had rave reviews and had best price and feedback and guaranteed premier quality of the treasures.

I plugged them all in, and my first test, was to listen to see if the noise was reduced... Wow the noise is virtually eliminated, and I have to put an ear up to a speaker to hear any hum whatsoever... Already worth it...

Next test... Music! I put my favorite vinyl test track on... Donald Fagen's Morph the Cat, and OMFG these tubes are night and day difference musically from the stockers by a huge margin. The soundstage is dramatically expanded, bass is much warmer and present, and the mids and highs are sweet and precise. My Vr3 modded LSi 9's sound incredible from top to bottom!

I Know that the stock tubes were made in China most likely by Shuguang, but these treasures are special, and I haven't found anything to dislike at this time... If I had to search for something, it would be that these bottles are black, and you don't get the same glow effect as you do from the clear bottles .


I haven't even checked the bias yet, but will do that after a couple of hours of listening.

Net net... I feel like I got a new hi end hi fi amp today, which should keep my addiction at bay for at least another week.

doctor r

Check the bias immediately, in 10 minutes, and then in one hour. These tubes have a reputation for a long break-in period where they initially sound good, then seem to lose a little (maybe a lot), and then sound fantastic. Be patient if they reach a point where it seems they are not as good as they are today as you will be ultimately rewarded. Again, check the bias. I would not be worried if it is optimum, but it could be to hot and damage the tubes. Just do it. I speak from experience. Enjoy!

Mikey081057

Doing it now thanks doc

cnh

Nice looking piece. Out of curiosity, did you ever give the "stock" tubes a chance to break-in, or did you just decide that the noise would always be there?

I never had any issues with the original tubes in my integrated below, no noise or nothing noticeable. Of course tube upgrades make a difference in sound and are an important upgrade, the problem? Tube country is a GIANT rabbit hole and it's pretty easy to talk oneself into thinking they can hear things that may or may not be there, especially if you start rolling too many tubes in too short a period of time. I find patience is a "virtue" here because you also have to break in your ears, lol!

Enjoy!


cnh

Mikey081057

cnh wrote: »

Nice looking piece. Out of curiosity, did you ever give the "stock" tubes a chance to break-in, or did you just decide that the noise would always be there?

I never had any issues with the original tubes in my integrated below, no noise or nothing noticeable. Of course tube upgrades make a difference in sound and are an important upgrade, the problem? Tube country is a GIANT rabbit hole and it's pretty easy to talk oneself into thinking they can hear things that may or may not be there, especially if you start rolling too many tubes in too short a period of time. I find patience is a "virtue" here because you also have to break in your ears, lol!

Enjoy!


cnh

So I had about 130 hours on the stockers, and they didn't seem to get any better noise wise or sweetness...

cnh

Mikey081057 wrote: »

So I had about 130 hours on the stockers, and they didn't seem to get any better noise wise or sweetness...

Looks like you did "good"! Enjoy the new tubes!

cnh

boston1450

That sure is a beautiful rig you got. Enjoy your new tubes. Hopefully they will sound even sweeter when they get broke in

Mikey081057

Day 2 :


Checked bias, and the Shuggies are stable... I am listening to various cd's and find that with old stock chinese tubes, sometimes i would be annoyed at how mushy the bass sounded on some tracks. It would be particularly annoying on some tracks and fine on others. so far after sampling about 20 different tracks, I can't find any reason to skip a song that sounds blah. I know there are alot of NOS tube guys out there, but these treasures sure sound fine for my ears. They seem to really bring out the best in the Yaqin.

Mikey081057

Tom Scholz was just wailing in my listening room...

doctor r

Sounds like things are coming together. The Treasures are some of the best modern production tubes made and should continue to improve with breakin time. I would suggest in the future after things have settled in for about 300 hours that your one weak link could be the reissue 12ax7 pair. I would recommend trying some tube rolling in this spot when you feel you really know the presentation of the amp after everything is settled in well. I think you can improve on the Mullard reissues with some of the very prevalent 50s and60s small tubes available for a very reasonable cost. Depending where in the amplification chain the amp uses that tube it could really just add a beautiful finishing touch to the excellent combination you have put together.

Mikey081057

doctor r wrote: »

Sounds like things are coming together. The Treasures are some of the best modern production tubes made and should continue to improve with breakin time. I would suggest in the future after things have settled in for about 300 hours that your one weak link could be the reissue 12ax7 pair. I would recommend trying some tube rolling in this spot when you feel you really know the presentation of the amp after everything is settled in well. I think you can improve on the Mullard reissues with some of the very prevalent 50s and60s small tubes available for a very reasonable cost. Depending where in the amplification chain the amp uses that tube it could really just add a beautiful finishing touch to the excellent combination you have put together.

Thanks for your help and advice doc. That sounds like best next move .

Dawgfish

doctor r wrote: »

Sounds like things are coming together. The Treasures are some of the best modern production tubes made and should continue to improve with breakin time. I would suggest in the future after things have settled in for about 300 hours that your one weak link could be the reissue 12ax7 pair. I would recommend trying some tube rolling in this spot when you feel you really know the presentation of the amp after everything is settled in well. I think you can improve on the Mullard reissues with some of the very prevalent 50s and60s small tubes available for a very reasonable cost. Depending where in the amplification chain the amp uses that tube it could really just add a beautiful finishing touch to the excellent combination you have put together.

+1. Nice system BTW!

zingo

Congrats on the Treasure tubes, and I've never heard a bad model in that line.

doctor r wrote: »

The Treasures are some of the best modern production tubes made...

I completely agree and the only new production tubes I would buy are Treasure/Psvane and Gold Lion.

Mikey081057

Day 3 listening to spotify thru Dragonfly dac, by passing preamp in the mc100b and sound is very accurate and full. Very quiet and suprisingly dynamic for digital to analog

So I think an "interesting" aspect of tubing is that unlike speakers, where you can pretty much compare them side by side and make some conclusions but with tubes your auditory memory is really exercised.

Still very satisfied so far. haven't heard any mush.

doctor r

Just keep enjoying the time. You are correct about using your auditory memory because the true timetable until they are at their best will be a few hundred more hours in the future. You could at that point place the original tubes back in for a few tunes and you will then have a good comparison of how good you aural memory can be. If you do a search on the web you can find references on the prolonged breakin of the Treasures.

zingo

Mikey081057 wrote: »

Day 3 listening to spotify thru Dragonfly dac, by passing preamp in the mc100b and sound is very accurate and full. Very quiet and suprisingly dynamic for digital to analog.

As much as I enjoy Spotify, I wouldn't use it for critical listening as it has a low bit-rate; 320 kbps maximum.

dhart86

who'd you buy your treasures from?

Mikey081057

dhart86 wrote: »

who'd you buy your treasures from?

Hanshare Electronics on ebay...

Mikey081057

zingo wrote: »

As much as I enjoy Spotify, I wouldn't use it for critical listening as it has a low bit-rate; 320 kbps maximum.

Agree totally, it does sound better than Pandora though, I am in the process of moving all of my cd based music to harddrive storage and will opt for highest quality. Personally i like vinyl the best... analog to analog sounds best to me

W WALDECKER

I have the Treasure KT88's in a 90wpc integrated along with the CV181-Z's and they are a great combination, the Treasure KT66 are excellent power tubes as well.

Mikey081057

Saturday morning enjoying a cup of Kona and Dream Theater Black Clouds and Silver Linings on 180g vinyl...A Nightmare to Remember.