Unbalanced to Balanced cables

audiocr381ve
audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
edited May 2013 in 2 Channel Audio
So I bought a pair of B&K M200 monoblocks, and both have a VERY finicky unbalanced connection at the amp. I took them into a shop and they tested out fine, but with my cables, if you so much as BREATHE on them, major distortion & popping comes out of the speakers that could potentially fry them.

I don't want to risk this with the new Totem Hawks that are on the way.

The amps have balanced connections that I'm sure are much more stable, but I don't have a balanced preamp (Dared SL2000a). Would there be any issue with using unbalanced to balanced cables (rca to xlr) from the Dared to the amps?
Post edited by audiocr381ve on
· Share on FacebookShare on Twitter

Comments

  • 11tsteve
    11tsteve Posts: 1,166
    edited May 2013
    i personally would have a problem running a piece of gear i know isn't right. is it a problem to have it repaired, or is there a mystery?
    Polk Lsi9
    N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
    NAD 1020 completely refurbished
    Keces DA-131 mk.II
    Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
    Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • zane77
    zane77 Posts: 1,696
    edited May 2013
    There shouldn't be an issue . I'm running unbalanced to balanced until I get a better preamp. What kind of cables are you using?
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
    Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited May 2013
    zane77 wrote: »
    There shouldn't be an issue . I'm running unbalanced to balanced until I get a better preamp. What kind of cables are you using?

    I was using some cheap monster stuff from the pre to the amps. I had my best cables going from the dac to the pre (Blue Jeans LC-1), but I just placed an order to replace all my IC's with BJC LC-1's to keep it consistent.

    I wonder if my monoblocks are truly balanced. I would assume they need a real balanced signal to function properly. If that's the case then does it affect the sound negatively to use an unbalanced signal?
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,287
    edited May 2013
    Not sure about the B&K but when using unbalanced cables with my Pass, you have to short pins across 2 of the female pin outs.

    The jumper is nothing more than a 3/4" piece of 12awg copper shorting 2 of 3 outputs the your balanced cable plugs into.
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited May 2013
    You should be able to run RCA on source end and XLR on the amp end. Do you know the XLR pin out on the amp? You simply short the ground to one of the pins on the XLR plug, and run signal to the other.
    Jake
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • AsSiMiLaTeD
    AsSiMiLaTeD Posts: 11,727
    edited May 2013
    I would work on getting the issue fixed instead of working around it. but that's just me
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • zane77
    zane77 Posts: 1,696
    edited May 2013
    http://www.jensen-transformers.com/an/generic%20seminar.pdf
    At the end of this article it shows you the pin outs for using unbalanced to balanced connections
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
    Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Speedskater
    Speedskater Posts: 495
    edited May 2013
    Everyone should read the Jensen (Bill Whitlock) paper that 'zane' linked to above!
    Both jensen-transfomers.com and rane.com have many good technical papers on subjects like this.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,498
    edited May 2013
    Sometimes with amps a shorting pin is used on balanced when connecting single ended. The pin connects pins 1 (ground) and 3 (the inverting signal) to ground the inverted input. RCA would connect to pin 2 and ground. Got a manual to check? I see B&K does not have one for download for the M200.
    audiocr381ve wrote: »
    I took them into a shop and they tested out fine, but with my cables, if you so much as BREATHE on them, major distortion & popping comes out of the speakers that could potentially fry them.

    Since you had your amps looked at I'll presume the RCA's have good ground. I've repaired some amps where the RCA's connected direct to board and the ground was broke/pulled loose from rough connecting/something falling on cables while connected.

    If your interconnects have a loose connection at ground or center pin, that can also cause what you describe.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited May 2013
    AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »
    I would work on getting the issue fixed instead of working around it. but that's just me
    +1, and try a different repair shop. BTW, if you must interface balanced and unbalanced connections, I use XLR-RCA male/female adapters from Parts Express to interconnect the pro EQ and active crossover I use in my party system with the other equipment, which are RCA only. The adapters work just fine.

    XLR-RCA adapters
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited May 2013
    So I swapped in the Blue Jeans LC-1's today to go from the pre to the amps, and it worked perfectly. The LC-1's are making way better contact I guess. No problems and I even wiggled the connections a bit to test them out.

    Thanks for all the feedback guys.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Glen B
    Glen B Posts: 269
    edited May 2013
    I guess the lesson learned is to always use quality interconnecting cables.
    Main System: Denon DP-59L | Audio-Technica AT33EV | Marantz SA-11S2 | Classe DR-10 | Classe CA-300 | Classe RC-1 | PSB Stratus Gold i's | DIY Balanced AC Power Conditioner | Acoustic Zen and NeoTech cables | Oyaide and Furutech power connectors | Dedicated 20A isolated ground line.

    Home Theater: Toshiba D-VR5SU | Laptop #1 |Outlaw Audio OAW3 wireless audio system | Marantz SR-19 | Phase Linear 400 Series 2, modified | AudioSource 10.1 EQ (for subs) | Axiom M3 v3’s | Axiom VP150 | Optimus PRO-X55AVs | Dayton 12” powered subs (x2) | Belkin PureAV PF-60 line conditioner.

    Party System: Laptop #2 | Audioquest Dragonfly USB DAC | Technics SU-A6 | Acurus A-250 | Radio Shack 15-band EQ | Pioneer SR-9 reverb | Cerwin Vega DX9's | Dayton 100° x 60° horns with titanium HF/MF compression drivers.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • audiocr381ve
    audiocr381ve Posts: 2,588
    edited May 2013
    Glen B wrote: »
    I guess the lesson learned is to always use quality interconnecting cables.

    It really is!
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter