Trinnov v MCACC v Audyssey XT
EndersShadow
Posts: 17,590
Curious as to how Trinnov compares to MCACC & Audyssey. Haven't heard much about this EQ but I know its supposed to be pretty good.
The Sherwood R-972 intrigues me compared to the Onkyo 709 and 809.
I dream of the Pioneer SC-67 but am on a PBR Budget...
The Sherwood R-972 intrigues me compared to the Onkyo 709 and 809.
I dream of the Pioneer SC-67 but am on a PBR Budget...
"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
Post edited by EndersShadow on
Comments
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I can start the conversation rolling here with a few insights that might help you decide. It mostly comes from the perspective of owning the Sherwood R-972. I have owned my R-972 for about a year now, and I am still learning it. I have never had a AVR with XT32, but a friend of mine owns a Denon 4311CI and loves XT32 for movies, but he has made the comment more than once that for music with Audyssey engaged that the “life” of the music seems to go “flat”. From the best I can understand what he means by that is that it looses a little definition, and sparkle to the sound. Understand here that I repeating information that my friend “David” has expressed. He is 600mi away in GA, and I hope to visit him this July, and see what he is talking about. Research about this yourself to see. Also, maybe some of those experenced with Audyssey will chime in about that.
For me music and sound is priority #1 and I feel that the Sherwood R-972 really shines here. I really like, and still own two HK AVR-354's because to me Harman Kardon's produce sound that has always been some of the best I've ever heard. When I first got the R-972 I was pretty amazed by how good it sounded, and ended up listening to it for days, and days before I ever ran Trinnov. I consider it's sound to be as good as the HK's, and that says a lot. I felt that even if this unit did not have Trinnov at all it was still worth way more than 599.00! It does not flatten the sound like my friend says about Audyssey in his Denon. I will probably take the R-972 to compare side by side to his Denon when I see him.
One of the things that I really like on the R-972 is the “Remastering” feature that you can turn on/off. I don't know if Audyssey has an equivalent to this. What Remastering does is it takes the input signal and upsamples it to twice its current frequency. If you're listening to a CD at 44.1khz it will be upsampled to 88.2khz. If you're listening to a source that is 96khz, it will be upsampled to 192khz. I was just listening to “Flying in a Blue Dream” by Joe Satriani, and especially in the beginning of the track where it sounds like various muffled voices in a room, the intelligibility factor of this part became much more clearly defined with Remastering on. Better clarity. Better separation. Fidelity was enhanced. I find that I am now “addicted” to this feature, lol, because it takes music sources to a better level of detail. Another feature I used with this at times on the R-972 is Pure Audio mode. When this is engaged all video circuits are turned off and this elimination of active video circuitry supposely can enhance the audio sound quality. Pure audio also redirects all the center, and surround channel information to the front L/R mains. I use this together with the Remastering mode. In two channel analog RCA stereo this really sounds nice. As an aside, one so called pro-reviewer (supposely pro) criticized the R-972 for having a totally black screen when Pure Audio was engaged and he didn't like not being able to see the screen so he could control the R-972. What he failled to mention is that the moment you touch any button on the remote the screen instantly lights up so you can tell where you're going. After about 3 seconds of not pressing any button the screen returns to black again. I went down a rabbit trail for a moment here, but I just thought I'd mention that while on the subject. I am the most amazed about this unit is that Trinnov room correction works in analog 2 channel stereo. I'm not positive about this, but I think that Trinnov may be the only RC technology that can do this. This really is an amazing benefit that also eq's my subs while in this mode.
On video, the R-972 has been criticized in some circles as not being as good as other AVR's video processing, although BD, and standard DVD's look good to me. I wouldn't worry about this though because more, and more BD players are coming out with dual HDMI outs of which one can connect directly to your TV which produces the best picture quality of all.
On surround processing, I think these formats you're asking to compare are state-of-the-art, and you can't go wrong with either one. I think though what sets Trinnov apart from every other manufacturer's surround sound processing is it's “3D Remapping”. As far as I know this is unique to Trinnov. Once you're heard it, it's hard to go back to anything else. What it does to the center channel is really amazing. I.e., with 3D engaged I'm standing in front of my TV looking down at my center speaker underneath it to hear it's sound, but my ears direct me to look upward towards the center of the screen because that's where the sound is coming from. I know the sound is coming from the center speaker underneath my TV with my brain, but my ears are telling me that's it's coming from the center of the screen. A magic trick for sure. I have no idea how this is done, but it's really neath to hear
Trinnov calls what it does to your room “Spatial Remapping”. It is a feature that not only measures time, distance, frequency, delay like most room correction systems but also measures azimuth, and elevation of each speaker. So far there's only one system with that ability -Trinnov. Trinnov measures your speakers in +/- degrees in a vertical and horizontal axis, and then shifts that axis of sound” so that positioning of your speakers, odd shaped rooms, open doorways, high ceilings, etc ., is measured, and compensated for thus making those considerations not critical. It repositions your speakers for you. Those with odd shaped rooms will greatly benefit from this technology. But more important to me is what Trinnov does to the somewhat narrow soundstage of the Lsi's. It widens, and heightens them quite a bit, and it also makes them sound as if the sound is coming from somewhere behind them. I literally feel that I am surrounded by a wall of speakers that is seamless going from one speaker to another. I do not know enough about XT32 to comment on how it compares. Maybe someone with some knowledge about it will comment. On my HK's EZset EQ room correction I can pinpoint each speaker within the room by my hearing. But with Trinnov it is like sitting in a bubble of sound like a perfectly balanced audio system inside a car. With Trinnov you are surrounded by sound but you are also able to get a good degree of pinpoint imaging of instruments within in the soundstage.
Subwoofer eqing. I 've heard that Audyssey Sub EQ HT is good. I don't think it is necessarily included with XT32 though. Sub EQ HT can EQ each sub individually and then EQ and average them together This seems a great approach to sub EQ. Trinnov is no slouch though. I use a splitter, and Trinnov sums and EQ's my twin Polk Micro Pro 4000's, or my twin Velodyne SPL-1000's better than the room correction software that is built into these subs. Trinnov showed on it's graph that my Micro Pro's were eq'd down to 19hz, I don't know how far down that XT32/Sub EQ HT eq's to. That would be good to know.
Good luck on your decision. I will tell you that for 599.00 the Sherwood R-972 becomes a no brainer. I have had mine a year, and still consider it the best audio purchase I've ever made. What I think is especially great and beneficial to us R-972 owners is that Curt Hoyt himself from Trinnov selflessly offers ongoing advice, and suggestions on the operation of the R-972 even though Sherwood has discontinued it, and Trinnov is no longer asscociated with Sherwood technically. Wow. What kind of service is that! I bet it can't be beat by any other audio company! I also think that “Stereo Jeff” at AVS is a former Sherwood employee who also gets online to share valuable insight. These guys are invaluable and it makes me think that even more that my purchase of the Sherwood R-972 was a GREAT decision!
Regards,
DevlonLiving Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One
Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151 -
Thanks for those thoughts. I would be more than likely in the Audyssey XT EQ though not the XT32 so it sounds like they are decently close.....
What are your thoughts on your 972 compared to a Onkyo 709 or 809 used just as a pre?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
I don't know enough about Audyssey and MCACC to comment, but over at the AVSforum there are several threads about Trinnov/Sherwood R-972 that discuss this. It is interesting to see that many have sold their Audyssey equipped receivers because of the 3D Remapping ability of Trinnov that's in the R-972.Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One
Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151 -
IMO, the only thing the R-972 is missing are balanced outputs."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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IMO, the only thing the R-972 is missing are balanced outputs.
Hehe and the ability to drive LSi speakers (i.e. ICE amp power).... but that isnt dealing with the EQ which is what I was curious about.
I may end up with a Pioneer SC model with MCACC simply due to simplifying my HT setup by allowing me to run the speakers off the AVR for at least some channels."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Pioneer's room correction sounds nice too. I don't understand why they need to run 2 or 3 times as many sweeps as Audyssey though."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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EndersShadow wrote: »Hehe and the ability to drive LSi speakers (i.e. ICE amp power).... but that isnt dealing with the EQ which is what I was curious about.
I just wanted to say that after reading a couple posts about people driving 4ohm loads I took and chance and pulled the R-972 off the Mirages and tried it with my Lsi set up. For about 8 months (until I got the Adcoms) I used the R-972 to push all the Lsi's you see in my signature. On movies I like it loud!!. Got a little warm, but not bad at all. It's not supposedly rated to handle 4ohm, but it seems to just fine.Living Room: HK AVR 354 as pre/pro, 2 x Polk Audio Micropro 4000, Adcom GFA-7500, 2 x Mirage OMD-15
2 x Mirage OMD-5, 1 x Mirage OMD-C1, APC H15, Sony S790, Philips 52" LCD, Beogram 3000, FAT (Firestone Audio Tobby DAC), Harmony One
Den: Sherwood R-972,as pre/pro, 2 x Velodyne SPL-1000R, 3 x Crown Drivecore XLS1500, 2 x Polk Audio Lsi9
1 x Polk Audio Lsic, 2 x Polk Audio Lsifx, Sony S790, APC H15, Dspeaker Dual Core 2.0, W4S DAC 2, Keces DA-151 -
Devlon wrote:
I just wanted to say that after reading a couple posts about people driving 4ohm loads I took and chance and pulled the R-972 off the Mirages and tried it with my Lsi set up. For about 8 months (until I got the Adcoms) I used the R-972 to push all the Lsi's you see in my signature. On movies I like it loud!!. Got a little warm, but not bad at all. It's not supposedly rated to handle 4ohm, but it seems to just fine.
Yeah if it doesn't have a 4 ohm rating I wouldnt want to chance it.
I am honestly thinking something like a SC-67 is just what I need to start saving my pennies for. Not cheap but I can wait till it drops in price especially since my Integra is still serving me quite well for now.
I was/am trying real hard not to contact the guy selling the SC-05 in CL in Chicago to be honest, as I think that model would drive my LSis decent"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
That Pioneer SC in Chicago is a great deal. Not much difference between the older sc models and the newer ones. If 4k pass through and 3d isn't a concern the sc-05 will do.
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That Pioneer SC in Chicago is a great deal. Not much difference between the older sc models and the newer ones. If 4k pass through and 3d isn't a concern the sc-05 will do.
Even though its not per the manual 4 ohm rated? I also am not super pumped that I am not getting any additional HDMI ports than I have now (4). But who knows maybe I will swing up there and grab it just for the hell of it.
**edit** AW HELL I emailed the guy. I got some stuff I could flip to make up the cost...
God you guys are good at spending my money...."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
