new problem w/ Denon tt

leftwinger57

I just got back from Goodwill again and picked up some more albums . Most still have the shrink wrap on them and at first blush look ok. Hotel California,Orleans Let There Be Music ,Don Henley Building The Perfect Beast,Rod Stewart Night On The Town,Doobie Brothers Captain and Me,Charlie Daniels Band Midnight Wind,Bob Seeger and the Silver Bullet Band Like a Rock.
Now the tt, on some of the albums is not clearing the first outer raised lip. What adjustment is there for this if any?
It's a Denon DP-11F direct drive tt w/ seemingly all functions working except for this new problem that just happened.
Oh if you remember I told you guys that an old Fisher Regnt tuner/amplifier console was there and is still is there only someone messed w/ the cart on the Dual 1226 and destroyed the stylus and pulled the cart off the headshell.A selfish move by any standards.

Glen B

Have you verified that you have the arm properly balanced and cartridge tracking force properly set ? If tracking force is much too high, the excessive downward force may cause the stylus to ride too low. An arm that is too low may also have problems with the cartridge body riding too close to the record surface. The arm should be parallel to the record/platter surface when properly balanced. The DP11F is a basic entry level TT, and does not have arm height adjustment like the higher numbered models.

Dawgfish

Different carts have different heights and thus a taller cartridge will have less clearance between the stylus and the record when cueing. In addition some records are thicker than others (180 and 200 gram vinyl for instance). Most tables have adjustable arm heights to adjust for these variables. If your table does not, you have a couple of options. The easiest option is to run a thinner mat that will give you extra clearance between the stylus and record. The next option is the more expensive one of running a cartidge with a lower overall height from base to the tip of the stylus. The other option is only running thinner records (not a good option to me).

While on the subject once the arm is lowered unto the record you want the bottom of the cartridge (if flat) and/or tonearm to be level with the surface of the record. This is known as the Vertical Tracking Angle(VTA). VTA usually has a big influence on the sound of your TT setup. If done to much one way or another the highs can be either overly pronounced and bright, or flat with inflated, boomy bass. It's really important to have the VTA set correct to get the proper overall tonal balance with your TT.

leftwinger57

I have never checked w/ any of the adjustment options because this just started today. Other wise it tracked perfectly .I do have the owners manual and will check on what the tracking force should be . Now there are so many carts out there I do not think it will say for certain cart what you should set it @ this . w/ that said I think I can call Denon and or the tt forum is called. Thanks Glen I reallly do not know very much about this tt and probably start reading the manual.

Dawgfish

I just checked out the DP-11 and saw that the tonearm raises and lowers automatically. I agree with Glenn about the tracking force. On such tables having too much tracking force can cause the tonearm and cartridge to ride lower and thus not have enough clearance on some records. Try re-zeroing the tonearm/cartridge balance and adjusting the tracking force to the recommended setting for your cartridge. This procedure is different on different tables so check out Vinyl Asylum for info on your table.

Try the suggestions I made on my first post only after checking and/or resetting the tracking force if the problem continues.

leftwinger57

Ok guys this might help. I called Denon and no help there. The forum I was talking about is Vinyl Engine and I just posted my problem there. Now after checking the stylus force right now is set at 3 for the Grado cart. So now I do at least have a starting # and could always go back. Is this too much force? Before I start resetting see if you guys can evaluate that setting if possible or should I go to lets say #2 and see what happens.I had no idea albums were different thicknesses and that easily could be the problem. I think I will back off to the #2 setting and see what happens.Thanks so much it makes perfect sense and this should work out.....

leftwinger57

Update

---

Readjusted to the 2 1/2 position and retried all the albums. They all cleared . I think this one is over and done with.
Thanks again ,mucho gracias........

Dawgfish

It's hard to say. The best thing to do is find out which Grado cart you have specifically and then look up the recommended tracking force for that cart. Usually there will be a range (i.e 1.25 to 2.25 grams for example). Set the tracking force to the middle of the range (in the example case set it to 1.75 grams). Like I was saying earlier the procedure for setting tracking force can be different with different TTs but generally it goes like this:

Place the tonearm away from the record and just off the arm/support that holds the tonearm when a record is not being played. Make sure the tonearm can freely move up and down at this point.

Adjust the counterweight at the back of the tonearm(with the cartridge installed on the tonearm btw) so that the tonearm is perfectly balanced at this position. The tonearm should float level and should not move either up or down. If the tonearm tip is moving downward, adjust the counterweight so that it is **** towards the back of the turntable. If the tonearm is moving upward, screw in the counterwieght so that it is moving in towards the stylus. Again adjust the setting until the tonearm floats perfectly level.

Once the tonearm is balanced, you will notice that there should be a line on the tonearm by the counterweight. Rotate the round scale (the one with the numbers on it at the counterwieght) without rotating the counterweight itself(very important) until the part that reads zero on the scale lines up with the mark on the tonearm.

At this point rotate the whole counterweight and round scale while holding both at the same time inwards towards the stylus until the specified number for the tracking weight for your cartridge (again using the 1.75 grams for out example) on the round scale lines up with the mark on your tone-arm.

At this point your tracking force is in the ball-park. Check to see if you are having the same problem after making the adjustments specified above.

Dawgfish

Good deal. I'm glad it's working for you. I would still try resetting your tracking force to the manufactur's specified setting as outlined above. You don't know who was messing with the TT settings before you had it. It could be off by a good bit. To light of tracking force can cause tracking issues and errors with the VTA. Too much tracking force can also cause VTA errors, stylus and cartridge clearance issues (as you are finding out), and premature wear on your stylus and records. Once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy to do and can make a big difference with sound. Just my dos centavos.

Glen B

All of the Grado cartridges, from the cheapest to TOTL model appear to have the same 1.5g recommended tracking force listed.

doctor r

Glen is correct. You should continue to change the vertical tracking force (VTF) down to 1.5 grams. The 2.5 grams will not allow the cartridge to sound its best. Also you need to adjust the anti-skate (sometimes called bias) setting to match 1.5 or be slightly below the 1.5grams setting.
Rick

leftwinger57

They were talking about VTF at Vinyl Engine big time.Lots and lots of posts.Even though I found the stylus force adjustment and used it now the tone arm balance is another thing to I should look at .I do remember dealing w/ that when I had my Dual 1229 in the 70's. I will not be shocked if it's close to balanced as by eye it does not seem to be diggging in for lack of the proper term.With saying that again if I know where I'm starting from I can always return it if in fact I want to get into the balance of the arm. Quite frankley I forgot how much is involved w/ a tt even w/ a fairly simple one as this

leftwinger57

I always do this .reread and always miss something. So Doc your saying my setting of 2.5 is a gram to heavy .I don't think making it that much lighter will do anything ,so maybe I was a wee bit over excited when readjusting VTF from 3 to 2.5 .

leftwinger57

This should be it for me on this . If Grado says their cart should be set at 1.5 it is .I did further increased balance w/ knob at rear of arm. Keep in mind the stylus also is used or been set wrong for who know how long. Right now the arm is clearing all intial humps and seems to be tracking ok. Hearing a difference in sound I do not expect to and I'm not. It sounds fine and only one of the all the albums I got today seem to have a major scratch.The Orleans album, but side 2 is clean.