Pioneer SC-67
pretorios
Posts: 39
I've been using the receiver for about a week now, first with a venerable set of Polks (the RM6800 series) and now with RTi's and an SVS sub. This setup definitely excels with music and television, though it leaves something to be desired with music. Who know, though; maybe there's a break-in period for both the AVS and the speakers.
Given that my use is about 90/10 in favor of film and television, however, I'm not dissatisfied. Musically, though, this setup is probably only a step and a half above the RM's with my old Onkyo receiver. A lot of mud and noise at higher volumes, though I suspect that the SC-67 lacks the oomph to power the RTi10 fronts/RTi5 center speakers. The Apple Airplay feature is nice and convenient, though I listen to mostly metal and progressive, for which this sound system offers no justice (maybe it does better with some softer types of music such as classical and jazz).
The SC-67 sounded pretty good right out of the box. The Flight of the Valkyries scene in Apocalypse Now was truly impressive. I couldn't believe how it pushed the older RM speakers. They never sounded so good. That the RTi's are a letdown (at least with metal and prof) illustrates that the Pioneer elite does not have the power to push these speakers. If you're eyeing a Pioneer Elite receiver and you like pounding rock music--well, you will likely need to use the Elite as a pre-amp only. The unit's sustained power is decidedly unimpressive.
The SC-67 is a deep, complex receiver. Unlike other reviewers and commentators, I don't find the interface confusing or unintuitive. It's pretty damned straightforward, in fact. There's even an entire chapter in the manual--the manual that Pioneer doesn't bother to print, by the way--dedicated to HDMI functionality. Speaking of which, I've run into some glitches with this receiver. Pioneer recommends using high-speed HDMI cables. I have to admit that I'm not using entirely high-speed cables. At times, when switching channels, the sound disappears. Quickly rectified by changing channels again (or powering off the receiver). I'm starting to think that this whole pray-at-the-altar-of-HDMI is just nothing more than blind faith, or the shepherd herding his flock to doom. I'm thinking of just reverting back to composite cables for video and digital coax/fiber optic for sound.
That would probably be my loss because the SC-67 does one heck of a job of improving the picture quality on my Panasonic plasma. Very impressive video upscaling, even for non-HD channels.
What about MCACC? Well, I tried it, but it's difficult to rate a thing when you don't set it up correctly. Lacking a tripod, I placed the microphone on the back of my couch. Mistake, mistake. I'll take another look at MCACC once we move into our new place. And once I get a tripod.
There have been some complaints about Pioneer's remote control, and I would like to second them. The buttons are small and cryptically labelled. I don't know what half of them do, honestly. But, really, there are only a few core things you need to do with with an AVR remote, and it handles the setup menu quite nicely. Thus, I don't think a bad remote is a deal-breaker. I don't mind handling four or five remotes, either, so I have no intention of programming this one to control my other components. To me, universal remotes have little to no value anyway.
PROS:
1) Nice clean sound, particularly for HT.
2) Plenty of options.
CONS:
1) Grossly underpowered--and underwhelming--for rock/metal/progressive music.
2) Constant HDMI glitches (maybe these are my own doing and Monster should get more of my coin for their exorbitantly expensive high-speed cables)
Given that my use is about 90/10 in favor of film and television, however, I'm not dissatisfied. Musically, though, this setup is probably only a step and a half above the RM's with my old Onkyo receiver. A lot of mud and noise at higher volumes, though I suspect that the SC-67 lacks the oomph to power the RTi10 fronts/RTi5 center speakers. The Apple Airplay feature is nice and convenient, though I listen to mostly metal and progressive, for which this sound system offers no justice (maybe it does better with some softer types of music such as classical and jazz).
The SC-67 sounded pretty good right out of the box. The Flight of the Valkyries scene in Apocalypse Now was truly impressive. I couldn't believe how it pushed the older RM speakers. They never sounded so good. That the RTi's are a letdown (at least with metal and prof) illustrates that the Pioneer elite does not have the power to push these speakers. If you're eyeing a Pioneer Elite receiver and you like pounding rock music--well, you will likely need to use the Elite as a pre-amp only. The unit's sustained power is decidedly unimpressive.
The SC-67 is a deep, complex receiver. Unlike other reviewers and commentators, I don't find the interface confusing or unintuitive. It's pretty damned straightforward, in fact. There's even an entire chapter in the manual--the manual that Pioneer doesn't bother to print, by the way--dedicated to HDMI functionality. Speaking of which, I've run into some glitches with this receiver. Pioneer recommends using high-speed HDMI cables. I have to admit that I'm not using entirely high-speed cables. At times, when switching channels, the sound disappears. Quickly rectified by changing channels again (or powering off the receiver). I'm starting to think that this whole pray-at-the-altar-of-HDMI is just nothing more than blind faith, or the shepherd herding his flock to doom. I'm thinking of just reverting back to composite cables for video and digital coax/fiber optic for sound.
That would probably be my loss because the SC-67 does one heck of a job of improving the picture quality on my Panasonic plasma. Very impressive video upscaling, even for non-HD channels.
What about MCACC? Well, I tried it, but it's difficult to rate a thing when you don't set it up correctly. Lacking a tripod, I placed the microphone on the back of my couch. Mistake, mistake. I'll take another look at MCACC once we move into our new place. And once I get a tripod.
There have been some complaints about Pioneer's remote control, and I would like to second them. The buttons are small and cryptically labelled. I don't know what half of them do, honestly. But, really, there are only a few core things you need to do with with an AVR remote, and it handles the setup menu quite nicely. Thus, I don't think a bad remote is a deal-breaker. I don't mind handling four or five remotes, either, so I have no intention of programming this one to control my other components. To me, universal remotes have little to no value anyway.
PROS:
1) Nice clean sound, particularly for HT.
2) Plenty of options.
CONS:
1) Grossly underpowered--and underwhelming--for rock/metal/progressive music.
2) Constant HDMI glitches (maybe these are my own doing and Monster should get more of my coin for their exorbitantly expensive high-speed cables)
Post edited by pretorios on
Comments
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though I suspect that the SC-67 lacks the oomph to power the RTi10 fronts/RTi5 center speakers.
Well, it's delivering 140 wpc with up to 5 speakers driven. The RTi10's are what, 90dB efficient, so you should be able achieve sound pressure levels around 111dB.Pioneer recommends using high-speed HDMI cables. I have to admit that I'm not using entirely high-speed cables.
Don't you think it would be wise to get the proper cable BEFORE offering your review?
What are you using as a source and how is it connected?
There are extensive fine tuning adjustments, have you played around with them yet?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Well, it's delivering 140 wpc with up to 5 speakers driven. The RTi10's are what, 90dB efficient, so you should be able achieve sound pressure levels around 111dB.
Don't you think it would be wise to get the proper cable BEFORE offering your review?
What are you using as a source and how is it connected?
There are extensive fine tuning adjustments, have you played around with them yet?
Source is a DirecTV receiver. The manual does mention that there may be sound interruptions (with HDMI) when switching channels. I indeed may try replacing the cables. I'm not blaming the receiver, though, so much as the HDMI technology, which started glitchy, and just has not gotten much better. In fact, it may have gotten worse. -
Is DirectTV your music source?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I have never heard the SC series described as grossly underpowered? My sc-35 powers my Rti12s to louder volumes than I care to listen. I know they use ICE amps vs the new D3 but it shouldn't be too much different. Mcacc is great once you set it up right, and a Harmony remote helps a lot! Just imho.
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Interesting review on the Pioneer amp being "grossly underpowered". My older SC-07 with ICE amps powered my, 4 LSi15's and LSiC with some ease.
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I have never heard the SC series described as grossly underpowered? My sc-35 powers my Rti12s to louder volumes than I care to listen. I know they use ICE amps vs the new D3 but it shouldn't be too much different. Mcacc is great once you set it up right, and a Harmony remote helps a lot! Just imho.
For HT, I think it's fine. For music, though, I was especially surprised because I have the setup in a smaller room now (15 x 13) than the room it will be in once we move (23 x 13).
I do look forward to setting up MCACC properly. -
The two primary sources are Airplay and CD.
Ok, now what I'm asking is what CD player? How do you have it connected and with what brand? I don't know squat about Airplay.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Ok, now what I'm asking is what CD player? How do you have it connected and with what brand? I don't know squat about Airplay.
AirPlay is simply a way of playing iTunes songs from and iPhone, iPad, or Mac to an Airplay-compatible device, such as the SC-67. It's streamed through the network.
I played the CD on a Sony bluray player connected via HDMI. Perhaps HDMI isn't the best choice for music. I plan to experiment both with analog cables and with digital cables. Music definitely lacks the lushness and clarity of HT, unless you're talking softer instrumental stuff.
I tried music in stereo, surround, and THX, and at no point did I suspect that the SC-67 was really pushing those RTi speakers. -
Incidentally, I did try both the 50hz and 80hz crossover.
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You problem is your speakers, they're not musical. The sc-67 should have no problem powering your rti's.
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AirPlay is simply a way of playing iTunes songs from and iPhone, iPad, or Mac to an Airplay-compatible device, such as the SC-67. It's streamed through the network.
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that about the same audio quality as MP3's? If so, yeah it will not sound good.I played the CD on a Sony bluray player connected via HDMI. Perhaps HDMI isn't the best choice for music. I plan to experiment both with analog cables and with digital cables. Music definitely lacks the lushness and clarity of HT, unless you're talking softer instrumental stuff.
Using an HDMI cable means your are using the AVR's DAC(s), so by all means try analog cables to see if the Sony DAC(s) works any better.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
I listened to the SC-65 on B&W CM08's, and it sounded great. It had no problem powering those speakers. I believe the audio specs are pretty close to the 67, and I side by side with the Yamaha Aventage 2020. As much as I like Yamahas, the 65 blew it away. Just my opinion.
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I can pretty much guarantee you the DACs in that AVR will be better tha the Sony BDP.Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that about the same audio quality as MP3's? If so, yeah it will not sound good.
Using an HDMI cable means your are using the AVR's DAC(s), so by all means try analog cables to see if the Sony DAC(s) works any better.
Unless you're deaf or are looking to listen at levels that will make you deaf that Pio should have plenty of power for those speakers. Did you run the MCACC setup? -
AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »I can pretty much guarantee you the DACs in that AVR will be better tha the Sony BDP.
Yeah I agree, but was interested to see what he thought.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Well, it's delivering 140 wpc with up to 5 speakers driven. The RTi10's are what, 90dB efficient, so you should be able achieve sound pressure levels around 111dB.
Don't you think it would be wise to get the proper cable BEFORE offering your review?
What are you using as a source and how is it connected?
There are extensive fine tuning adjustments, have you played around with them yet?
For my own knowledge, at what distance away from the speakers are you referring to achieve around 111db?_____________________________________________________________________________________________
Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
DAC: Bricasti M1SE
Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics -
There are extensive fine tuning adjustments, have you played around with them yet?
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samreddevilz wrote: »There are extensive fine tuning adjustments, have you played around with them yet?
I have adjusted a lot of settings, but I can't say for sure that I've comprehensively done all of them. Which specific setting are you referring to? -
AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »I can pretty much guarantee you the DACs in that AVR will be better tha the Sony BDP.
Unless you're deaf or are looking to listen at levels that will make you deaf that Pio should have plenty of power for those speakers. Did you run the MCACC setup?
I ran it experimentally just to examine the results. Since I don't have a tripod, I didn't really do it "correctly" and probably won't until we move into the new house. -
You problem is your speakers, they're not musical. The sc-67 should have no problem powering your rti's.
I'm beginning to think that you may be right. The RTi's are great for HT, but to achieve something more musical, I would probably have to go into the LSi line. That's not an option, however, and I would simply like to get music as good as possible. -
Yeah, one would think the receiver will deliver more power into 2 ch stereo so the speakers should have decent power....so maybe the speakers are not to your liking? Now the question...if you go LSi how well would the AVR power those...now you might be talking high current amps?2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
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I'm beginning to think that you may be right. The RTi's are great for HT, but to achieve something more musical, I would probably have to go into the LSi line. That's not an option, however, and I would simply like to get music as good as possible.
Dont Tell that to Gadabout, He has or had RTi10s hooked up to some large SS amp and they sound great for music.Speakers: SDA-1C (most all the goodies)
Preamp: Joule Electra LA-150 MKII SE
Amp: Wright WPA 50-50 EAT KT88s
Analog: Marantz TT-15S1 MBS Glider SL| Wright WPP100C Amperex BB 6er5 and 7316 & WPM-100 SUT
Digital: Mac mini 2.3GHz dual-core i5 8g RAM 1.5 TB HDD Music Server Amarra (memory play) - USB - W4S DAC 2
Cables: Mits S3 IC and Spk cables| PS Audio PCs -
For my own knowledge, at what distance away from the speakers are you referring to achieve around 111db?
One meter.WLDock wrote:Yeah, one would think the receiver will deliver more power into 2 ch stereo so the speakers should have decent power....
The SC series deliver their rated power up to 5 channels driven.
samreddevilz, why are you posting my comment like it's your own?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
samreddevilz, why are you posting my comment like it's your own?
well he has posted a bunch of one line comments that are pretty generic guessing spammer/ wants to sell something real bad here.... -
Dont Tell that to Gadabout, He has or had RTi10s hooked up to some large SS amp and they sound great for music.
Thanks. This is a potential option. What concerns me is that I'm getting distortion in the vocals and upper frequencies. Given that the SC supplies 140wpc and the RTi10's can handle 300, I wonder if they're getting enough juice. -
Interesting. I can play CDs on my RTi10s at near reference levels without any of the problems you list, and that's with a Denon 3312ci AVR that's somewhat less robust than your Pioneeer (125wpc). Gotta break out the ol' SPL meter and see what I'm getting.Thanks. This is a potential option. What concerns me is that I'm getting distortion in the vocals and upper frequencies. Given that the SC supplies 140wpc and the RTi10's can handle 300, I wonder if they're getting enough juice.So, are you willing to put forth a little effort or are you happy sitting in your skeptical poo pile?
http://audiomilitia.proboards.com/ -
If your auto calibration is off that might be messing with things as well.
I would suggest whenever you hear that distortion to go into a Direct mode so your turning off the EQ and see if that does anything. If not then start checking speaker wires and source connections.
Is the distortion on all channels, or just specific ones?"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Yeah, the class D's kick butt, but why is the OP running out of headroom?The SC series deliver their rated power up to 5 channels driven.
I guess as others have stated, check the fine settings, connections, etc...and if that does not do it...may want to do a visual on the crossovers? Who knows?2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2 -
Yeah, the class D's kick butt, but why is the OP running out of headroom?
I guess as others have stated, check the fine settings, connections, etc...and if that does not do it...may want to do a visual on the crossovers? Who knows?
What size is the room? If it is a larger room, more space to fill. I found the SC to be good to great in small to medium sized rooms. By that I mean somewhere around 10 by 12 to 10 by 15. My LSIM 705 sounded great and had no need for an amp in that size. Went into a bigger room, coincidentally, the sound quality dropped. Actually, it's no coincidence.
Halen -
halenhoang wrote: »What size is the room? If it is a larger room, more space to fill. I found the SC to be good to great in small to medium sized rooms. By that I mean somewhere around 10 by 12 to 10 by 15. My LSIM 705 sounded great and had no need for an amp in that size. Went into a bigger room, coincidentally, the sound quality dropped. Actually, it's no coincidence.
Halen
The room I'm in now is 15 x 13. The room I will be going in is L-shaped with a 20 x 10 bar side and a 23 x 13 family-room side.
I plan to add a 2nd sub and probably an amp.
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