Lsim 703 and dual small subs or 1 big sub?

robert0507

I currently own the Lsim 703 speakers and listen to mostly music with a movie very now and then(80/20 split).
I do have a Hsu vtf 3 ho sub, but was thinking about picking up two smaller ten inch subs to put in between the
703's. I was looking at the dsw550wi, but Im not sure if they are musical enough. Any opinion or insight would be welcomed.

eclypse

I've heard that you want smaller 8" subs for music. I've also heard that the Polk Audio DSW1000 are pretty great for music.. also the 3000 but people feel the 3000 would be better for movies.

Polk Direct did have the 1000 recently in there ebay store for cheap but all I now see is just the 3000. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Polk-Audio-DSW-microPRO-3000-10-1200-watt-2400-max-/360586968890?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53f4a87f3a#ht_4484wt_1161

robert0507

yeah I had the micropro 4000 before. It was ok. Other than the micropro 1000/3000, are there any other good 8 to ten inch subs out there for music>

robert0507

someone said the Dynaudio Sub 250 10 ich subs are good. Has anyone heard these?

Dawgfish

I'm not sure what your budget is but this is what I listen to on a two channel only system with my 703s:

http://www.upscaleaudio.com/rel-r205/

It was super critical for me that whatever sub I ended up with be musical, fast, and detailed. No muddiness or boominess was acceptable. The REL R205 fit this to a T. I couldn't be happier with it for music. I couldn't tell you how it does for HT duties, but my experience with it tells me it will do fine. It won't be the loudest or most impactful sub out there but it will fill in the lows quite well and be very accurate in the process. If I were listening to music as much as you are or more with the 703s, I would definitely put REL subs on your short-list. If the ratio was reversed between music/HT, I would look at some other subs.

Face

Unless you want to EQ the hell out of your setup, dual subs will give better bass response.

bklynNupe

Dual subs are one of the best upgrades that I have experienced to date. I used to think duals were only for bass heads. However, I have found that my sound stage is taller and is more balanced. I don’t have to play my monitors as loud ( unless I want to) in order hear a big sound. I've also noticed more detail in the mids and highs. It does take some work to get duals dialed in properly. Thanks to a SPL meter and wonderful tech support from SVS, I’m satisfied with the end results. If monitors call for a sub in order to shine, I would never want to go back to a single sub again.

robert0507

ok so here is my next question. Keep in mind I already own a hsu vtf3 ho sub. I can get a eD a 350 for a good price (under 400), or can get a pair Dynaudio sub250(more money). If I get the Dynaudios I will have three subs(would be using the vtf 3 ho for the low bass-behind sitting position). Or I can go big and get the eD 350 15 incher(would only have two subs then) in combo with my vtf3 ho. Which would you guys go for. I listen to a lot of jazz/alt music...sometimes pop

leroyjr1

Get another hsu.

robert0507

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Get another hsu.

Would you recommend the HSU MBM mk2? I think its made spec. for the 150 to 50 Hz range. I am looking for more mid bass slam I guess

Face

robert0507 wrote: »

ok so here is my next question. Keep in mind I already own a hsu vtf3 ho sub. I can get a eD a 350 for a good price (under 400), or can get a pair Dynaudio sub250(more money). If I get the Dynaudios I will have three subs(would be using the vtf 3 ho for the low bass-behind sitting position). Or I can go big and get the eD 350 15 incher(would only have two subs then) in combo with my vtf3 ho. Which would you guys go for. I listen to a lot of jazz/alt music...sometimes pop

I would get another of what you have now or two new subs. The eD sub is great for HT, ok for music, but their amps are showing reliability issues and are NLA. There is someone on AVSForum who fixes them, but I'm unsure how long term that solution is.

Velodyne makes a great sub, so does REL, JL Audio, etc...and there's always the DIY route.

Face

robert0507 wrote: »

Would you recommend the HSU MBM mk2? I think its made spec. for the 150 to 50 Hz range. I am looking for more mid bass slam I guess

Bass Extension (max extension mode)

16 Hz
Bass Extension (max output mode)

22 Hz

eclypse

DSkip wrote: »

How big is your room? The 703's are not devoid of slam. In fact, that's one of the attributes that makes me prefer them over the towers.

I had a single 705 on the left and a single 703 on the right for a week before I got my second 705. Right away I loved what the tower brought over the bookshelf. Actually I was floored at those dual oval shaped woofers and I'm just running a Denon receiver with 125 watts per channel. There was a few times I actually got off the couch to check and make sure I had my PSW 404B off!

Cant wait to hear them once I get a few 250-500 watt mono amps on them.

robert0507

its 2600 cubic feet opening up to the stairs to the upper level.

rpf65

If you like your HSU, get a second one to go along with it. It's a whole lot easier to dial in 2 subs that are the same make/model. You can do different ones, but it can be a true pain in the butt.

If you are looking at Polk, I would probably go with 2 DSW pro 550 wi's. I think your room would be a little on the large size for the 440's, but they may work. I would run that one by Polk CS. They know these products pretty well. The DSW 440 pro wi is pretty good for music, but a little lacking for HT.

Pretty good write ups on SVS SB-1000, as another option. Pair of those will run about $950, and most reviews are really good. For a single sub, you may get away with an SVS SB-12, but I would probably go with the SB-13. I've also read really good reviews on HSU ultra series.

For a musical sub, I would probably go with either the Polk or SVS. Truthfully a toss-up between a pair of DSW 550's or the PB-1000's.

leroyjr1

robert0507 wrote: »

Would you recommend the HSU MBM mk2? I think its made spec. for the 150 to 50 Hz range. I am looking for more mid bass slam I guess

No, I'd get a second of what you already have.

WLDock

have you considered plugging both ports(Sealed operation) of the vtf3 HO and seeing how you like that for music? Or maybe consider adding the vtf1 mk2 for music?

WLDock

That's a good point. Many have said that they come alive with a good high current amplifier ?

robert0507

DSkip wrote: »

Robert, what's the rest of your system? Source, cables, power chain? The 705/707 definitely dig deeper, but they don't have as much midbass slam as the 703. In fact, I'd classify the towers as refined and smooth, whereas the 703's are fun and punch, all-around better for rocking out.

I'm suspecting issues elsewhere if you're looking for more punch in the midbass. A sub shouldn't reach up that high if you're running speakers of that caliber. If you're running those pups off a receiver with el cheapo cables, you just aren't getting anywhere near their potential.

o

I have an onkyo 3008 receiver in btl mode(over 200 watts per CHANNEL in btl mode) Music is coming from custom built home pc through hdmi cable. Itunes laac 256kb, some flac files.

robert0507

I have the speakers crossed at 80hz

robert0507

oh yeah cables are 10 awg emotiva cables.

robert0507

What would be a good xover for them ?

eclypse

I'd say 40 but i'm sure others will say 60.

robert0507

Dskip what amp would you suggest? Polk says that these speakers are good with 200 watts max.

WLDock

robert0507 wrote: »

-I am looking for more mid bass slam I guess
-I have an onkyo 3008 receiver in btl mode(over 200 watts per CHANNEL in btl mode)
-I have the speakers crossed at 80hz
-its 2600 cubic feet opening up to the stairs to the upper level.
- Would you recommend the HSU MBM mk2?

While I've yet to have first hand experience with the LSiM703's in my own space it seems as if some things jump right out given all of the feedback and reviews I've read.

1) The power available from the TX-NR3008 seems fine for moderate to above for many, but keep in mind a with all channels driven the power output is measured at about 65-75 Watts.

TX-NR5008 test: http://www.hometheater.com/content/onkyo-tx-nr5008-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures
TX-NR5007 test: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/onkyo-tx-nr5007-av-receiver?page=0,2

2)In BTL(Bridged) mode minimum impedance is fixed at 8 Ohms for those channels. I'm sure this is fine for moderate levels but may be a strain at higher levels??? Consider the test report data from Stereophile on the LSiM703 speaker impedance:

Stereophile wrote:

The electrical impedance (fig.1, solid trace) remained between 4 and 7 ohms over most of the audioband, but dropped to 3 ohms at 125Hz. There is also an awkward combination of 4 ohms and –47° phase angle at 90Hz, a frequency where music can have considerable energy. Polk specifies the LSiM703 as being "compatible with 8 ohm outputs," but I suggest that a good 4 ohm–rated amplifier or receiver would work best with this speaker.

3) It seems you are looking for the midbass slam of the LSiM707 towers. Many say these have much more lower end presence that can SERIOUSLY take effect in some rooms the closer you get to the walls and corners. There are some out there that think the towers have too much low end...but we know how that goes as taste are different. Nevertheless, check the graphs...See the Sound & Vision test data:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/article/test-report-polk-audio-lsim-speaker-system?page=0,2

However, the 703 bookshelf's from several reviews and feedback have a more refined, controlled, or rapid roll off on the low end if you wil....that cleans up the lower end and works well in many rooms...I.E...less boosted bass if too close to surrounding walls. This is a non-Polk like trait that many like. See the Stereophile test data:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/polk-lsiiim703-loudspeaker-measurements

Stereophile wrote:

The low frequencies roll off rapidly below the port tuning frequency, which is a little high for such a large bookshelf design. I suspect that Polk has optimized the LSiM703 for high dynamic range rather than maximal low-frequency extension. There is almost no sign of the usual nearfield boost in the upper bass, which implies that the Polk's woofer alignment is somewhat on the overdamped side, something I tend to prefer—as did Bob, who commented favorably on the speaker's well-defined lows. It will also allow the speaker to be placed close to the wall behind it without its low frequencies becoming overbearing.

4) Given the approx 55Hz tuning freq. -3dB Frequency Response of 50 Hz - 30 kHz, maybe consider keeping the 80Hz crossover point...or 70Hz-60Hz at the lowest...but the speaker is rolling off hard anyway.

5) As far as power...I would bet for your taste at ref levels a high current 4 Ohm rated amp would make a difference. Maybe two or three OUTLAW Audio Model 2200 monoblock amps? http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/2200.html
Or maybe an Emotiva XPA-3? http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/xpa3

AND/OR

Maybe the HSU MBM-12 Midbass module will give you the chest thumping slam you are after? I would talk to HSU about your issue also.

robert0507

WOW:eek:....Thank you WLDOCK and everyone who responded to this thread. I have gotten a wealth of info. You guys are the Best!
I have decided to get an amp and the MBM 12 mk2. I think these will help a lot.

codyc1ark

Nice, ill add for anyone looking at this thread I don't think you'll ever be able to get an eD sub, unless you go used... :cheesygrin:

Face

I would talk to HSU and see what they say, I wouldn't recommend a midbass sub and would recommend purchasing another of what you have now.

WLDock

DSkip wrote: »

WL, have you actually heard the LSiM's or are you just going off that review? The 703's have more midbass slam/punch than the big boys, but the big boys dig deeper and create a more refined and balanced sound. I don't agree with anything you're saying about the series and think its misleading/misguiding.

I never owned either I was going by feedback and graphs. The speakers look damn near ruler flat from the lower midrange out to the treble. I see a slight rise at about 100Hz that drops off after that. The 707's seem to be just as flat with less of a rise. I have not heard your findings about the 703's. Tell me more or maybe I will search your past post. So, you've had both sets? Do tell, I am looking hard at the 703's as my next set.

leroyjr1

robert0507 wrote: »

WOW:eek:....Thank you WLDOCK and everyone who responded to this thread. I have gotten a wealth of info. You guys are the Best!
I have decided to get an amp and the MBM 12 mk2. I think these will help a lot.

If music is what you're looking for I'd sell the 703's and get the 705's and you won't need a sub. I own both and the 705's are much better for music. If HT is your thing the 703's with dual subs is the way to go.

Dawgfish

^^ ^^

Agreed my 703s replaced some floorstanders I had and I actually prefer the bass on the 703s (never heard the 705s or 707s unfortunately). The bass on them is quite tight and hard hitting provided you give them good, clean power.

IMHO you really don't need a sub with the 703s with music. They perform just fine without them. Having said that I love how well the 703s and th REL R205 sub pair with each other. They are a perfect compliment to each other. The sub just fills in the very lowest registers for added effect on some of the music I like to listen to (think beginning of Dire Strait's Telegraph Road, Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture, etc.). The thing is you really don't even know the sub is playing, it doesn't call attention to itself. It sounds like one musical and well integrated system. That is exactly what I was looking for. Again I don't need it but now that I have it and have heard it with the 703s, I'm not taking it out........