Hey Doc.... man I'm hooked already!

pjdami

I sent Tom an email this morning at SVS about a recommendation for a sub for my living room. I mentioned your name as a reference. He copied in Ron and replied within a hour!

Basically, I have a 19 X 17 ft living room with a 10 ft high ceiling. There are 7 ft openings on opposite corners of the room that lead to other rooms.

Musically on my Home Theater system which consists of a LSi package and a B&K AVR307 the Hsu sub is absolutely perfect. Since I don't really listen to too much music above 90 - 95 db it seems to keep up perfectly with two channel music. Very tight and accurate and totally disappears.

Now, I did watch "Pirates of the Carribean" last night, and the scene where the hot chick falls into the water and there is some kind of cool underwater explosion ... well it was okay but that's where the smaller Hsu limitations may be lacking for the size of my living room. I was kind of expecting this though. I think this little sub will be perfect for my two channel rig in my office which is a much smaller room.

Now back to the SVS. I replied to Tom's email. He was asking me about if I can corner load and if I watch DVDs at reference level. Well, I have the system currently calibrated using the S&V DVD at 75 db with the sub about 3 db hotter. This is a volume of -15.0 db on the B&K receiver. Last night I watched the movie at this volume.. so is this "reference" volume?

Anyhow, the Hsu has given me a taste of what real bass sounds like. I moved my PSW350 to the office for the two channel rig but after a couple of hours this morning I disconnected it. Just sounds bloated to me now and rumbly for a lack of a better word.

I'm hoping the 20 - 39 PCi+ will fit my needs. I'm kind of after the "in-between" performance of low extension and max spl. We'll see what Tom comes up with. If a SVS can keep up musically like this Hsu and give me the extra impact for watching DVDs then that is the way to go I'm thinking.

Very excellent customer service so far though!
Paul

Dr. Spec

Normally when you calibrate to Dolby Reference Level, the Master Volume always goes to 00 and you use 85 dB all around for Avia and S&V (both Ovation) or 75 dB for VE.

I calibrated a AVR507 in this manner and had no problems. Use the B&K remote to adjust channel levels while the S&V DVD is playing.

Make sure all speaks are set to small and the sub is set to on/yes, and use an 80 Hz xo with standard THX filter slopes 12 high pass and 24 low pass (because I know the B&K has adjustable filter slopes).

Also, shut off any bass limiter circuits (if the B&K has a true bass limiter). Also make sure the LFE channel level (not to be confused with the subwoofer level) is set to 0 (on a scale of -10 to 0). And make sure you don't have any Dolby dynamic range compression limiters running in either the AVR or the DVD player (these are sometimes called midnight mode, or DRC).

There is no way in that size room that the Hsu can take true Dolby Reference Level - it would self destruct or shut-down. And I think you will realize that after you recalibrate to true RL (strongly recommended).

I'm NOT saying to actually play the system at RL, but calibration to RL establishes a universal baseline for your Master Volume that we can all relate to when discussing playback volume.

Regardless, sub calibration with these discs can be tricky.....

Avia (or S&V) is true Dolby Digital and uses the surround channels for sub calibration and therefore allows the surround speaker in question to contribute bass to the subwoofer tone.

I have found that the amount of bass each surround speaker contributes to the sub tone is highly dependent on its room location, its inherent bass capabilities, and the xo you have selected.

For example, my left main is several dB higher than any other channel on the subwoofer tone. If I was unfortunate enough to select the left main for sub calibration, it would result in undercalibration of the sub.

The best way to check all of the differences in the surround channels is to power down the subwoofer and run the Avia (or S&V) sub test tone for each channel and note the results.

If you like your bass hot, pick the surround channel that has the lowest reading with the sub powered down and then use it to calibrate the subwoofer.

In any event, the final sub calibration level shouldn't be more than a few dB "hot" with Avia or S&V.

There is no such animal as a "PCi+", it is either a PCi or a PC-Plus (or PC+ for short). Actually, in that size room, I think Tom will probably recommend a PB2-ISD over a 20-39PC+. Either would be a stellar choice in that room, but I think the final model recommendation should be made after you recalibrate to RL and check your Master Volume setting at your preferred playback volume.

Doc

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by pjdami
Now, I did watch "Pirates of the Carribean" last night, and the scene where the hot chick falls into the water and there is some kind of cool underwater explosion ... well it was okay but that's where the smaller Hsu limitations may be lacking for the size of my living room. I was kind of expecting this though. I think this little sub will be perfect for my two channel rig in my office which is a much smaller room.Paul

I agree you are asking too much of a 10" woofer with an 8 mm xMax to fill a room that size with the "Pirates Medallion Underwater Nuke" scene. It's really just a matter of physics and not a knock against the sub per se. I agree it will do much better in a smaller room.

The SVS designed, TC Sounds built "dB-12" woofer in the 20-39PC+ has "about" a 25-26 mm xMax (the exact Dumax data is a secret) and of course much more cone surface area. It would take at least 4 STF-2's to equal a single PC+ in terms of clean output in the 30 Hz region. Below 30 Hz the disparity will become even larger, and at 20 Hz (where the Hsu has very little usable output) it would be a downright slaughter. Like the old hot-rod saying goes, "there is no substitute for cubic inches".

pjdami

Okay Doc. Thanks for the detailed reply and checklist.

I pretty much had everything exactly like you say above except for the Ref Volume level setting. I currently have it at -15.0 db on the volume calibrated at 75 db. So looks like I have some work to do here and go back and recalibrate at a volume of 0.0 @ 85 db. I just used -15.0 db for my reference point because I've actually never gone louder than that on my receiver's volume knob.

From the sounds of it, I don't think I typically listen to movies anywhere near reference levels. So I will make the above calibration and see what level I watch movies at. So if I am at reference volume at 0.0 on my B&K and I watch movies at -10 db then we have an absolute reference point that I can relate to with others correctomendo?? I think I've got it now.

thanks for your continued support and advice!
Paul

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by pjdami
From the sounds of it, I don't think I typically listen to movies anywhere near reference levels. So I will make the above calibration and see what level I watch movies at. So if I am at reference volume at 0.0 on my B&K and I watch movies at -10 db then we have an absolute reference point that I can relate to with others correctomendo?? I think I've got it now.

Correctomundo!

I'm guessing your "new" Master Volume setting will be about -20 for the same playback level as you previously had on Pirates with your "old" settings. Let me know how close my guess was!

dave shepard

Not to butt in but I agree with the Doc's pb2-isd recomandation I have a 19x25x9 room with a 7ft archway on one wall and a stairway on another and my pb2+ is plenty and given your room is slightly smaller I would think the pb2-isd would be ideal and should give you the right amount of heard and felt bass without being overwelming. If you do get one your in for a real treat and will have to watch over all those movies you thought were good before the SVS to experance what you were really missing.

Good luck

Dave

pjdami

Dave, no problem bud, were talking subs here and you've got a great one too. Besides, you're correct as well.

Doc,

I got another reply from Tom late last night. You were correct in that he would recommend the PB-2isd. For slightly better performance he said to go with the PB-2isd+. This is if I want to enjoy movies at "reference" levels. He said I could also go with pairs of the PCi 20 - 39 if I put them close together or the PC 20 - 39+ if I space them apart (in different locations).

Now I just got through running some calibrations using the S&V. I was a bit surprised to find that when I put the volume on the B&K at 0.00 db I achieved 85 - 86 db on all of the surround speakers without having to adjust any of the speaker levels from the 75.0 db calibration I performed at an earlier date. This is what the settings look like:

L +1.0 C -0.5 R +1.5 RS +1.5 LS +1.5

I was incorrect that I was using -15.0 on the volume setting to achieve the 75.0 db level on the calibrations. -15.0 on the volume knob is the max that I would normally watch movies.
-10.0 on the volume is what I need to get the 75.0 db calibration on all the surround speakers with the speaker settings above. Amazingly, when I went to 0.0 volume on the B&K I achieved 85.0 db on all the surround speakers no adjustments were necessary. Man those test tones at 85.0 db were very loud for me!

I have further examples for you. The S&V DVD has a THX trailer sound demo. The one with the glass ball that shatters, sound of thunder, and then the electric sounding THX logo that comes on. Well at -15.0 db on my volume, the shattering glass hit a 96.0 db peak, and the thunder and the THX logo coming on were at 89.0 db. This is the listening level where I would normally watch movies and this is kind of cranked up for me actually.

So based on my listening habits, I'm kind of thinking the PB-2isd would be too much for me?? Good to have a lot of reserve handy but I don't think I would ever realistically use it. Could a regular PCi 20 - 39 fulfill my listening habits and if I thought it was lacking I could always get another one. The PC 20 - 39+ would probably be a safer bet but is also a few hundred dollars more expensive.

Like I said in my original post, I think the little Hsu sub does very well for the levels that I listen too but may be marginal when I get to the -15.0 db volume on my receiver and watch movies.

One other interesting note. The Sound and Vision has a subwoofer crossover check tone that starts on one of the main speakers and gradually shifts the sound to the sub. I lost about 3 db during the shift to the sub at 85.0 db. Is this a good blend?

thanks,
Paul

pjdami

hey Doc. One more thing (thanks for your patience with this bud), I was just thinking and I guess the question that I have to answer for myself is at the -15.0 volume setting on my receiver that I normally listen / watch DVDs to (which is less than 75.0 db), which sub will give me the full dynamics of an action scene (i.e. ring drop, underwater charges on U571, etc) with a little extra "cushion" or fudge factor for the occasional if I wanted to crank it up a little more say to -10.0 on the volume.

Not sure if this is a tough question or not. I guess what I'm after is what the max SPL LFE level that can be generated by these movies when one listens to -10.0 off reference volume. I was looking for some max spl numbers on the SVS website.

Now, I have my system at a point of volume reference to yours. What is a good scene that we can compare something to? I think you have done something like this before on the PWF club thread but I know I'm not in this company yet but need something a little tamer.

Dr. Spec

I also replied to your email - but let's tackle most of this here at CP. :-)

First, the Avia and S&V discs have an error when it pans to the LFE channel on the six channel (5.1) panning test. Ignore the fact that the sub level drops on the LFE channel; it is encoded improperly on the disc.

2nd, I forgot to mention you should have your sub level at around -5 (on a scale of -10 to +10) to minimize THD from the sub pre-out. Make your sub calibration level adjustments manually at the STF-2 amp control and only fine tune with the B&K, but the sub level should stay somewhere in the negative region regardless.

What was your sub SPL on calibration anyway? A little hot (like 88-89 dB)? That's where most people like it for HT. And which channel did you end up using for the sub level?

Very glad you are now calibrated to RL - very easy now to discuss playback volumes. As I thought, you are around -15 to -20 for most movies, and the STF-2 should be able to handle that for most DVDs, but a few DVDs might cause it to strain for run out of breath at -15, especially if you are running it a bit hot.

Dolby reference level is defined as 105 dB bass peaks from any surround channel, and 115 dB bass peaks from the LFE channel - as measured at the listening position. The reason the LFE channel is higher, is because your DD/DTS pre/pro automatically boosts that channel 10 dB.

If the surround speakers are set to “small”, the subwoofer is required to handle both low passed surround channel bass and the LFE channel. In the event of simultaneous bass peaks in multiple surround channels and the LFE channel, the subwoofer would be required to deliver up to a 121 dB bass peak at RL as measured at the listening position. Now you can appreciate how demanding RL can truly be on a subwoofer, especially when all speaks are set to small!

There is one variable on the whole RL concept, and that's the atual DVD mastering level. I wish I could say that setting the Master Volume to 00 after RL calibration with Avia or S&V always yielded sound pressure peaks of 105 dB in the surround channels and 115 dB in the LFE channel every time for every Dolby Digital DVD, but it just isn't true. Some DVDs are mastered very hot, and other ones are not.

So ultimately it's best to view RL calibration more as a standardized benchmark for enthusiasts than an absolute playback level, because we can't control the mastering level in DVD movies.

Here's some examples for you to compare against. These are with the PB2+ running about 4-5 dB hot, so keep that in mind when looking at bass SPL peaks. Also remember, my SPL meter is professional grade and reacts faster to bass peaks than the RS model and is also more accurate at high volumes.

My SPL meter (like the RS model) is C-weighted, and you need to add a correction factor in the bass region to obtain the "true" SPL. While a single correction factor is probably not accurate for every scene, most of the scenes are in the 25-30 Hz region and a correction factor of 4 dB is probably reasonable to add to your readings if you really want to know the true SPL you are experiencing.

Regardless, the SPL peaks listed below are straight reads (i.e., NOT corrected and still c-weighted), so you can still compare them to your RS meter.

Finally, I don't normally listen at these levels, and these numbers were generated as part of the subwoofer review to see if the PB2+ could handle extreme duty playback levels (which it obviously can).

1) LOTR-FOTR EE (DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete), Master Volume -10

Sauron Ring Drop (0:03:58): 115 dB
Ring Wraiths Leaving Castle (0:32:43): 113 dB
Cave Troll Falling Dead (Disc 2) (0:33:28): 116 dB
The Bridge of Khazad-dum & Balrog Fight (Disc 2) (0:37:33-0:41:26): 113-116 dB

2) Monster’s Inc. (DD-EX), Master Volume -9

Sock Explosion (0:18:40): 115 dB
Boo Crying (0:47:50): 117 dB

3) Titan AE (DTS) Master Volume -11

In The Ice Field (1:03:34-1:07:22): 115-117 dB
Planet Forming: (1:22:13-1:23:34): 114-115 dB

4) The Matrix (DD) Master Volume -4

Morpheus Knee Smash (0:50:51): 115 dB
Chopper Crash (1:51:03): 115 dB
Neo and Agent Smith Landing In Fight (1:54:52-58): 113 dB

5) The Haunting (DTS-ES 6.1 Discrete) Master Volume -12

Door Knocks (0:38:06): 117 dB
Door Knocks (0:38:52): 116 dB
Door Knocks (0:39:36): 115 dB
Door Knocks (0:40:21): 115 dB
The Cold (0:39:15): 108 dB

6) Jurassic Park III (DTS) Master Volume -11

Dino Fight: (0:26:40-0:27:25): 113-116 dB

7) Star Wars Episode I: Phantom Menace (DD-EX) Master Volume 00

Pod Explosion (1:01:39): 114 dB
Pod Racer Passing (1:02:17): 118 dB
Pod Race Canyon Exit (1:05:26): 116 dB

8) Star Wars Episode II: Attack Of The Clones (DD-EX) Master Volume -11

Coruscant Ship Passing (0:02:02): 116 dB
Coruscant Ship Exploding (0:03:23): 117 dB
Speeder Drop (0:16:01): 114 dB
Speeder Crash (0:20:53): 115 dB
Column Dropping (2:10:20): 114 dB

9) Pearl Harbor (DTS) Master Volume -10

Arizona Explosion (1:29:57): 116 dB
It’s A Dud (1:39:03): 114 dB
Arizona Sinking (1:40:00): 112 dB

10) Minority Report (DTS) Master Volume -10

Rocket Backpack Ceiling Crash (0:51:12): 116 dB
Sonic Blaster (0:52:21): 115 dB
Auto Assembly Line (0:54:01-17): 114-116

11) U-571 (DTS) Master Volume -10

Sub Torpedoed (0:47:47): 114 dB
Plane Fly-Over (1:06:24): 113 dB
Depth Charges (1:19:30-1:20:25): 112-116 dB
Destroyer Artillery (1:42:23): 113 dB
Destroyer Torpedoed (1:44:26): 114 dB

pjdami

2nd, I forgot to mention you should have your sub level at around -5 (on a scale of -10 to +10) to minimize THD from the sub pre-out.

I always wondered why you recommend the -3 db to -5 db on the receiver. Okay I had it on 0 so I will adjust accordingly.

What was your sub SPL on calibration anyway? A little hot (like 88-89 dB)? That's where most people like it for HT. And which channel did you end up using for the sub level?

My sub is calibrated about 2 - 3 db "hotter" than the left main LSi which was the lower of the two mains in the calibration. This was a "straight" read like you mention. I did not add any dbs for the calibration... should I?? If I remember correctly, the 3 db "hotter" setting is the compensation right?

If the surround speakers are set to “small”, the subwoofer is required to handle both low passed surround channel bass and the LFE channel.

Yep, all surrounds including LSi 15 on small.

Cool. Thanks for sharing all of those readings. Forgot that you did that. I have several of those movies so tomorrow I will start at my preferred listening level of -15.0 db on my receiver and take some straight readings on the SPL meter and see what the little Hsu can do.

I'll have to be careful though. I've never blown a speaker before but I should be able to tell immediately if I bottom her out.

Tempting to do this tonight but Peyton Manning is my fantasy football QB and I'm in the quarterfinals and this is quite a game going on here. I'm on vacation this week so I'll have quite some time to play

Paul

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by pjdami
My sub is calibrated about 2 - 3 db "hotter" than the left main LSi which was the lower of the two mains in the calibration. This was a "straight" read like you mention. I did not add any dbs for the calibration... should I?? If I remember correctly, the 3 db "hotter" setting is the compensation right?

Actually, remember the RS meter reads LOW on the sub test tone. So 2-3 dB hotter on the meter is probably about 5 dB hot in reality.

But about 2-3 dB hot on the meter (87-88 dB straight read) with Avia and S&V is where "most" people like the bass level for HT. "Mildly aggressive without being overpowering" would be the best way to describe how this calibration level should sound.

In the end, the sub calibration level is a matter of personal taste, but nearly all enthusiasts end up falling somewhere in the 85-90 dB (straight read) region.

My PB2+ is actually running cooler now that it was when I first owned it. I'm getting anywhere from 85-88 depending on the channel, with Avia.

Doc

pjdami

I found this over at the PWC thread:

The scene where the ring hits the ground is the PWC qualifier. The reason most people only hear a dull soft thud is because it is so deep most subs pretty much ignore it. It is a spectacular passage on a good sub.

At any given volume setting, I get equal SPL peaks on the ring drop and the reverse sweep implosion.

This second quote gives me a reference point. At a master volume of -15.0 on my receiver the ring drop produced a 98.0 db peak but the implosion which followed which is the 45 - 50 hz stuff yielded a 106.0 db peak. That means I'm 8 db down on the really low 22 - 23 hz stuff. There is no way I would listen to this movie any louder than -15.0 db especially in DTS. This was almost uncomfortably loud for me. I don't know if I mentioned this before either but my living room is very lively with ceramic tile (no carpeting just an area rug). I found a -20.0 db volume to be more comfortable but was still pretty loud.

I also tried the Monster's Inc "sock explosion" scene at -10 on my volume and yielded a 98.0 db peak there as well.

Doc, I know that Tom has recommended the PB-2isd but the sheer size and weight of the box is what I have an issue with. It's just too big. That's why I was sort of leaning towards a PC 20 - 39+ or now I'm just reading about the PB1-Plus in the beautiful mercury red color. Wow, when are they taking orders on that one? Looks like it is being released today? Are the woofers more robust with the "plus" models?

If I could get the PB1-Plus to reproduce a 106 db ring drop at a volume of -15.0 db in my living room, I would think that would make me more than happy.

Loud & Clear

PJ - I've been having similar thoughts regarding those very two subs; I want the two woof PB2-isd, yet the footprint of the PC+ and the fact that it would be easier to add another down the road, because of said footprint, is also compelling. Tough decision, but I think I'll be opting for the 20-39 PC+ within a few weeks; that is unless I'm told something new is in the works that strikes my fancy.

Dr. Spec

Yes, the ring drop and the reverse sweep implosion are "about" the same amplitude. Sometimes I'll get one outgunning the other by a dB or so (straight reads), but there is not a huge difference.

Also remember, both my 20-39PC+ and my PB2+ both have a slightly rising response down to about 22 Hz (due to room gain), so anything in this region will be accentuated slightly.

All rooms will be different, but suffice it to say, if your STF-2 is 8 dB down on the meter between the ring drop and the implosion, it is safe to say it's checking out early.

It's also interesting note you got the same reading (98 dB) on the sock explosion, which is about the same amplitude and frequency as the ring drop.

I don't know for sure if Hsu employs any peak limiter in the BASH amp, but this is common to protect a smaller woofer with limited excursion capabilities. I also know he uses a 2nd order SS filter, but I'm not sure at what frequency it kicks in.

In other words, many commercial subs "lop off" both amplitude and depth to protect the sub, so they seem to "handle" those scenes just fine, but in reality you are missing much of what is actually present. That is why these scenes are actually much harder on the SVS than the Hsu - the SVS will reproduce the entire scene, and adding 8 dB of output at 22-23 Hz requires a huge increase in cone excursion, port flow, and amp power.

The PB1-Plus has the exact same woofer as the Plus cylinder subs - the TC-Sounds dB-12. The PB1+ will have roughly the same FR at each tune point as the PB2-ISD and PB2+. I have included a graph below.

Yes, the sub is gorgeous, but just be aware it is nearly as large as the PB2 enclosure, lacking only about 4" of depth compared to its big brother. The wood finish will probably make it appear smaller than the black textured PB2 enclosure, and you also have a choice of five stains.

If you listen at -15 to -20 RL, I think a single Plus woofer (box or cylinder) will do just fine in that size room, and you could probably afford to run it a bit hot and still be OK. If you will be pushing -10 (or higher), I would definitely opt for the PB2-ISD or the PB2+.

The PB1-Plus pre-orders will be starting VERY soon (right on the heels of the PB2-Ultra. Expect the price to be "around" $1,200 and delivery starting the end of January. The reason for the delay in the PB2-Ultra and PB1-Plus introduction is that SVS experimented with and ultimately abandoned the original enclosure with veneer build design, and instead bit the bullet and is building these enclosures in exactly the same manner as the B4-Plus using the same shop and the same CNC equipment. Suffice it to say, the PB1-Plus and PB2-Ultra will have a VERY upscale furniture grade build and finish as well as incredible performance.

Doc

pjdami

Doc,

Thanks for your continued and very generous support during my selection process here.

So I was just checking out some calcs on volume and if the new PB1-plus is 4 inches shorter in depth but retains the other dimensions of the PB-2isd that would put the dimensions at 18" X 25" X 24" which equates to a OD volume of 6.25 FT3 (not sure what the actual "usable" volume is). The 20 -39 PC+ would have a OD volume of 4.535 FT3. Since they both have the same 12 inch driver is this just a port volume vs driver volume thing? Both subs should perform basically the same?

The fact that the box is "big" is less a concern with the fine **** wood finishes they are offering. I would also think that the PB1-plus would be about 20 - 30 lbs lighter than the PB-2isd since its slightly smaller and with one less driver. The color of my LSi 15s are cherry but seem to fall in between the shade of the American Antique and the Mercury Red. I'd probably favor the Mercury Red if I go that route.

I emailed Tom back this morning about pricing and preorders for the PB1-plus. I'll have to decide which one to get from there. Parametric equalizer feature in the PB1-plus... I was reading that on the SVS website as well.

Thanks for all the help again. We are fortunate to have you here on the forum. I'll wait for some more input on the differences between the two subs and then make a decision pretty soon.

Paul

Dr. Spec

The cylinder walls are only about 1/4" thick (albeit extremely strong).

The internal volume of the PB1-Plus is considerably less than the exterior dimensions would suggest, after taking into account wall thickness (1.5" in some spots) and internal bracing, etc.

The exact dimensions of the PB1-Plus are listed in the website and also in a recent Ron Stimpson post over at HTF if you care to search for it.

I would imagine the internal volume of the two is very close; the cylinder might even have a slight edge.

The port length of the cylinder is no doubt longer, which is why the PB1+ tune points are 25, 20, 16. The 20-39PC+ tune points are 20, 16, 12.

Plugging a port on the PB1+ to lower the tune will reduce the overall maximum output by a few dB, but it will increase deep extension at least equal to a 20-39PC+, if not a bit better.

I can hear/feel a difference on my PB2+ between the 25 Hz tune and the 20 Hz tune on only a handful of DVDs (and I've got all the popular big bass hitters). The ability to go subsonic to about 15 Hz is nice for the few rare DVDs that actually contain information that low.

SVS offers the 25 Hz tuned models because the VAST majority of DVDs don't contain significant information below about 22 Hz. Not surprisingly, the 25 Hz tuned SVS models are actually flat (or even exhibit a mild rising response) to 22 Hz in room before the SS filter kicks in.

A 25 hz tuned SVS does justice to about 99% of all DVDs on the market. If you want to capture that last 1%, then tune it down to 20 Hz (if it has variable tuning) or buy a 20 Hz tuned model.

Doc

pjdami

Thanks for the tip Doc.

I found it here:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htforum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=173038&highlight=svs+pb1plus

My oh my...isn't she a beaut? That is one fine looking sub...

Dr. Spec

Now that's a subwoofer. It's hard not to lust after the wood finish models. Those Ohio wood craftsman really know how to make cabinets - everything is CNC'd and hand finished. I've got my eye on the PB2-Ultra.........Jet Black to match the Polks.

pjdami

Doc,

I got a reply back from Tom. He agrees that the PB1+ should fit my needs at my listening levels.

SVS will be taking orders very soon he said as well.

One more thing is that the PB1+ will have a parametric equalizer. Does this help tame room nasties or something?? Does it allow the user to adjust in frequency increments or something?

Paul

Dr. Spec

Good deal, Paul - I think you will love the PB1-Plus.

The built in PEQ is a single band unit. You can select the frequency, the notch size (narrow or wide affect around the selected frequency), and the amplitude of the gain/cut. I haven't seen the SVS version, but I assume it will work that way.

So you run a sweep and if you've got a nasty hump somewhere, you can knock it down with the PEQ, etc.

If you need something more extravangant, you can always buy an external PEQ.

Doc

polkatese

Paul and Ed,
Thanks for this great thread. Paul seems to pinpoint his "requirements" exactly the same way as I would had. Just by reading this thread, I felt that I am ready to take the plunge just by following Paul's inquiring path and be completely happy with the decisions. As he mentioned before, he doesn't need a "plaster cracker" sub, and his listening habits is identical to mine.

The PB1-Plus pre-orders will be starting VERY soon (right on the heels of the PB2-Ultra. Expect the price to be "around" $1,200 and delivery starting the end of January. The reason for the delay in the PB2-Ultra and PB1-Plus introduction is that SVS experimented with and ultimately abandoned the original enclosure with veneer build design, and instead bit the bullet and is building these enclosures in exactly the same manner as the B4-Plus using the same shop and the same CNC equipment. Suffice it to say, the PB1-Plus and PB2-Ultra will have a VERY upscale furniture grade build and finish as well as incredible performance.

The furniture grade quality is really nice, I wonder which color would match better with LSi's Ebony/black?

So, I have a month to preorder it before it goes up by about $150 ($100 on price and $50 on shipping).

Thanks again for the education, guys!

pjdami

Polkatese,

You can find the stain finish colors here:

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/news.htm#newpbcolors

The Mercury red doesn't exactly match my LSi 15s but does match my coffe table and end tables pretty close.

Ron at SVS told me that the PB1+ webpage should be updated really soon (hopefully today) and then the preorders and final price will be disclosed.

Paul

polkatese

Thanks, Paul! this is kinda freaky, I thought I saw a page with the details of the preorder before Dec 31st, for $100 less than the final price (I thought it was $1249), and shipping at $99 ($149 after Jan 31st.) but then, I can't find that page earlier. I hope I wasn't seeing things...

Dr. Spec

Actually the price is $1,049 plus $50 flat shipping fee with CONUS during the intro period.

SVS REALLY held the line on this sub - that is a great price considering what you are getting.

I really don't think the PB2-ISD ($900) and the PB2+ ($1200) will steal sales away - the demographic looking at the PB1+ simply has different needs/priorities and I think this model addresses them beautifully.

polkatese

Thanks, Doc! I knew I must have inhale something I am not supposed to....:)

pjdami

SVS has just updated the website. One can now place a preorder on the PB1+.

http://www.svsubwoofers.com/subs_pb1_plus.htm

If you want to preorder one, put your choice of color in the comment section as they currently do not have a computerized selection for this choice just yet.

I just got my confirmation email. I think I may just be the first one in the entire world to preorder one online.



p.s. Thanks again Doc!

Dr. Spec

No problemo! One only has to look at what a comparable REL would cost to see what a screaming deal this sub is for only a grand:

- 525 watts of BASH power
- famed dB-12 woofer designed by SVS and made by TC-Sounds
- built in single band PEQ
- triple 3" flared (both ends) porting arrangement
- custom SS/EQ circuitry at each tune point
- CNC'd hand-built, hand-finished furniture grade enclosure

You will LOVE the way this sub looks and performs. Be ready though - it's a big un'!

Doc