Noob Question: Recommended Wattage

TonyPTX

OK,
When it comes to car audio, I'm a serious novice.

I've been wanting to upgrade the basic system in my '03 F-150 for a while and came across a good deal on some Polk db570's at Crutchfield (buy one pair, get second half off).

I figured upgrading the speakers should be a starting point over the OEM paper woofers and wizzer cones.

I got one 570's mounted and wanted to test to make sure it worked before I put the door panel back on and all I could say was that the sound wasn't that great (read distortion) (i directed the balance and fade to that one speaker). I'm using the stock HU (Ford's rendition of the Visteon CD6) that's supposed to put out 80W (I'm guessing 20W/channel). I had the volume about half way and didn't want to go any higher for fear of blowing the speaker.

So my question here is, "Is a 4 channel amp in my future?" or can I get by for a little while with the stock HU?

Tony

Systems

so does your truck have one of the "premier" audio lines from ford?
or just the basic one that comes with every vehicle?
-Cody

TonyPTX

A bit more info.....I was being rushed on the first post...

I don't remember seeing anything about it being a premium system or (audiophile) as some of them are called. It's just the standard AM/FM/6-Disc In-Dash Changer (although the back of the unit had two large wire harness plugs going to it).

SO to answer your question, I'll have to assume it's NOT a premium system and from the looks of the cheapie OEM speakers...

I'm in a catch 22 here in that I like the stock look and features of the OEM HU, but I know it's not the ideal unit to be driving the new Polks. I felt that the middle ground could have been the OEM HU with an aftermarket 4-channel amp and speakers. But I was trying to differ the 4-channel amp for a while.

PoweredByDodge

well teh first thing u need to chnage is the headunit -- if you go with a 4 channel amp, you'll want a nice clean preamp output - something a factory deck wont provide. and if you go with a high power 60 x 4 factory deck (25-30 x 4 rms) you may not even need an amp if it suits your taste.

TonyPTX

PBD...

Thanks for the input. I had a chance to try an aftermarket Alpine unit in the system (35x4) and the system sounded better. The stock HU just doesn't have the power to drive the db570's correctly. I'm in the search for a new HU now. Maybe an Alpine 9815...

EDIT:
I picked up an Alpine CDA-9805 and like it quite nicely. I would have gone for the 9807 if they didn't have it in crome...what an ugly color. As for the sound....MUCH better. I'm still missing something on the low end (Thunderform Custom-Fit Subwoofer) in the very near future. I think that will set me straight then...

Peace...
Tony

PoweredByDodge

thunderforms are BAAAADDDDD... they rattle, the plastic flexes and makes funny sounds, and they will over time do damage to the woofers... i blew two polk DX 10's inside of a thunderform (even after i got the internal volume down to about 0.6/0.7 per sub which is what's reccomended for those subs).

I would really suggest just taking the time to build a simple small box for a single woofer and tucking it neatly under wherever u wanna hide it (if that "hidden away" simple look is what you're after -- i just assumed cuz u wanted a thunderform that 'tucked away' and simpel is what u wanted). cost you about 15 bucks in wood/screws/**** and it'll sound 1000000000 times better.

MacLeod

Originally posted by PoweredByDodge
thunderforms are BAAAADDDDD... they rattle, the plastic flexes and makes funny sounds, and they will over time do damage to the woofers... i blew two polk DX 10's inside of a thunderform (even after i got the internal volume down to about 0.6/0.7 per sub which is what's reccomended for those subs).

What about Q-Logics's Qforms? Are they sucky too? I need a funky shaped box and one that is probably beyond my talents as a carpenter so I was thinking about the Qforms single 10" box. Im not gonna pay $500 for JL's box, maybe if it had a 10W7 instead of the 10W3 then maybe.

sntnsupermen131

the patented "q-logic ring" is worthless
theyre notorious for leaking air
their boxes are also made very poorly
JL on the other hand makes very nice boxes, but like you said, theyre EXPENSIVE
go look on ebay and see what the 10w3 is selling for
cuz if you can sell it for high enough, and chances are you can b/c JL is as overhyped as bose, then you can probably get a good portion of your money back, then buy a descent sub with a rubber surround...
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

q-forms are worse than thunderforms...

there's always something u can do -- dont u have an 02 ram? under the back seat is fine and can be made virtually square with a couple 8's and hammer out ground pounding ****.

MacLeod

True but I have a space problem. I use the middle portion of the under seat area for my amp rack housing 2 amps. The drivers side is where I put all my tools wires, straps and junk. I have my sub in the passenger side area. I built a box that fit in there and fire down its just that its only .31 ft3 empty and .28 with the sub in there. Thats awful small and its hard to find subs that will work in that small a place.

I have an MTX T6000 now but am not happy with it. It may be the sub and not the enclosure but I kind of doubt it. A guy at a local shop let me listen to a 10 in a ported box with the same amp Im using and it sounded great! So I dont want to spend $100+ on another sub if its gonna sound so-so in the same too-small box.

If I made the box any bigger it would have to spill over into the middle area where my amps are and Id have to give up my tool sotrage space. I may just have to give in and give up my junk storage and use the amp space to ad another .2 ft3 to my box.

I like the E-bay idea tho. Maybe I can get lucky and some nitwit might have blown his sub and just decided to sell the empty box for a song. I think Ill check that now!

goingganzo

look at stryke audio stryke.com they have a sub called the av12mkII jick but sub also the av15mkII


i have a av15 in a 2.5 cube with 100 wats and it is realey wicked. and musical. it has the x max to go low and the displacement to play loud and a strong motor so it has good sq and at under 200 bucks it is a steal.

PoweredByDodge

idq 10's will slam in a 0.5 box... and u can dump them down as low as a 0.3 box and still have them sound nice.

the mtx 6000 10's are happiest in a 0.75 box... 0.55 is abotu as low as u can go before they suck.

take a look here...
http://www.imagedynamicsusa.com/website/tech/data_sheet_idq10d2v2.html

notice that they have a negative 3 db point (like u loose a good chunk of response "fall off") at 20 hertz in a 0.3 box. for the mtx 6000 that point is at 35 hertz in a 0.75 box... **** its probably like 40 or 45 hertz in a 0.5 box... i dont even wanna know how damn bad it is in a 0.3 box.

long story short -- it might be worth investing in an IDQ 10 (come in dual 2 or dual 4 for your wiring pleasure)... buy it from sounddomain.. if you dont like it, you've got 30 days to send it back and get your money back... no questions asked. long as u dont put a screwdriver through it.

MacLeod

Well Im using an 8" rather than a 10". The reason is that I want to downfire the sub and the hole Im firing into is only 9" wide. A 10 wouldnt fit. Plus nobody hardly uses 8s and since Im not going for SPL I think it would be cool to use something different. Then again, nobody uses Jensen speakers either and that doesnt secessarily mean its a good thing to do! LOL

Ive been looking around and the Kicker SoloBaric L5 8" will work in a .33 box and the RF HX2 you pointed out to me earlier will work in a .3. Polk/Momo 8 will work in a .35 as well. I think Im just going to upgrade my sub and dump some polyfill into it and that should be about right. If it still sounds ho-hum then it wont be too big a deal to build a slightly bigger box and get about .37 or.4.

I think Im going to go with the Kicker because they hit 141 db with a single Solo Baric L7 8"!!! Ill probably go to Tweeter this week sometime and test drive one and see. If I dont like it Im going with the Momo. I listened to a 10 yesterday at Circuit City and it was sweeter than anything else they had in there. Blew the MTXs away like they were sitting still! I guess MTX aint what they used to be back in the late 80s.

sntnsupermen131

the L7 square speakers?
yes, theyre very loud, but not very accurate, so if youre going for SQ, square speakers arent the way to go
thomas(trappedunderice) had an 8" kicker in his surburban, you might ask him what he thought of it
-Cody

MacLeod

Thats what I was afraid of. I was going to give them a listen before I bought them.

I guess Ill go with the Momo 8.

sntnsupermen131

thomas doesnt have the L7, he just has the regular round 8" from kicker
umm
check out www.imagedynamics.com
see if they have an 8, ID would be my personal preference if they have one
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

when they did 141 with a single L7 8 that was with a ported enclosure as well... no way in hell that was 0.3 sealed. and there was a lot of other work done in that install.

MacLeod

Oh of course. I wasnt planning on entering a competetion with my li'l box. I just thought that was pretty cool that you could hit that big a db with a single 8 and that if the Kicker square sub could hit that much then it had to be worth looking at.

It did however make me consider a ported box though. Ive been looking at some response graphs (MTX and Polk) and in every situation the ported box yields at least 3 db more output and over 5 in some cases. Now I know this isnt earth shattering but when youre trying to get all you can out of single sub with modest wattage every little bit helps!

Hell, I dont know why I just dont build another box for a 10 and get about a 300 watt amp and call it a day.