NAD vs Carver

Bob in WI
Bob in WI Posts: 155
edited May 2013 in Electronics
I have a NAD 7400 receiver (100 watts; essentially the NAD 3400 amp & NAD 1700 Tuner/ pre in one cabinet). I like it alot but there are holes in the sound. Could be from the NAD, could be from the Polk Monitor 70's, could be my ears. I don't think its the source; seems independent of the cd player or the TT. Local thrift has a Carver CT7 tuner & Carver M-05T amp for $150 each. That seems steep to me/ I'm thinking $200 for the pair. Would the Carver separates be an upgrade over the NAD? I think the Carver amp is the lower end of their line & 140 watts. Appreciate your thoughts. I have no experience with Carver equipment. I paid $75 for the NAD so I don't have a ton of cash tied up in it. TIA
Post edited by Bob in WI on
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited April 2013
    Price seems about right. I can only comment on my own experiences with those 2 brands. Nad has a better sound quality to me over the Carver. Not that Carver is bad, just too sterile sounding for my ears anyway. Nad, while sounding better seems to have some quality control issues.

    With that said, 200 bucks isn't going to get you much of anything in the way of a big jump in sound quality from what your acustomed to. Local Craigslist in Chicago has a few nice amps and pre's between 3 and 5 bones.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited April 2013
    What is it about your sound that you do not like?
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • Bob in WI
    Bob in WI Posts: 155
    edited April 2013
    There are holes in the audio spectrum. You hear certain instruments clear as day. Others are there if you listen for them but muted. It seems those instruments are always around the same frequencies so I think its a fault somewhere. As if you could hear a triangle & a cowbell perfectly but you had to listen closely to hear snare drums. Thats the concept.

    Tony
    Bingo on the quality control. I think I've repaired the worst of the crummy cold solder joints. I'll check out Chi Craigslist. Not much lately in Milwaukee or Madison.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited April 2013
    What kind ofdcdma player or turntable do you have? What is the speaker location like distance from the wall. Distance to your chair?
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited April 2013
    Bob,

    From your description of the sound, I want to say it could be a cable issue.....considering the source is of decent quality. I've had those same experiences in the sound until I tried different cables. That synergy thing is a b$tch.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited April 2013
    Alrighty then! Hold on to your wallet as the elusive search begins!

    It would be a lot cheaper if a friend of yours owned a High End electronics store and could loan you all the cable flavors until you found the "sweetest"!

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • plainoledave
    plainoledave Posts: 408
    edited April 2013
    Bob in WI wrote: »
    Could be from the NAD, could be from the Polk Monitor 70's

    buy some lsi or lsim and the holes in the sound will be filled.
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited April 2013
    cnh wrote: »
    Alrighty then! Hold on to your wallet as the elusive search begins!

    It would be a lot cheaper if a friend of yours owned a High End electronics store and could loan you all the cable flavors until you found the "sweetest"!

    cnh


    Ok chief, kindly point out where I said "high end" cables. I'll wait......have a feeling it will be a very long time too.:biggrin:
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited April 2013
    Bob in WI wrote: »
    I like it alot but there are holes in the sound.

    This could be room issues as well.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • jon s
    jon s Posts: 905
    edited April 2013
    NAD products are unreliable from what I have experienced... Carver is cheaply built.... I had a TFM25 and when you look inside, the electronics are all cheap components. I would not recommend ither brands...
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  • nooshinjohn
    nooshinjohn Posts: 25,421
    edited April 2013
    jon s wrote: »
    NAD products are unreliable from what I have experienced... Carver is cheaply built.... I had a TFM25 and when you look inside, the electronics are all cheap components. I would not recommend ither brands...

    You had a TFM-25, popped the top and saw cheap parts so the brand itself is not worthy of a recommendation? That's a bit like opening the hood on a Toyota Echo an assuming everything else from Toyota is cheap crap as well. The TFM 25 is an entry level amp in the Carver lineup, and is 25 years old now. any amp that age needs to be serviced and brought back to spec to perform its best. That goes for NAD gear as well. I would also toss out there that components(caps/resistors etc.) have been improved dramatically in 25 years and what seems cheap today may well have been the best available 25 years ago.
    The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD

    “When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson
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  • Bob in WI
    Bob in WI Posts: 155
    edited April 2013
    Appreciate the feedback. There are certainly room acoustic issues. The living room serves other purposes besides audio. Also I recognize that the speakers have a limited sweet spot; It is quite clear as you change distance from them. Hasn't thought of cables, they are wired now with heavier gage twisted copper. CD player is a Sony DVP S7700, TT is a Dual 1237 & Grado Blue with OEM stylus. I don't think it is the source.
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,500
    edited April 2013
    Bob in WI wrote: »
    The living room serves other purposes besides audio.

    Yeah, same here Bob. My two channel system is also in the sittin' room. HT is in family room. I told the wife acoustic treatments are going in; only say so you have is to pick the fabric and color. She did. I could see them after a few days as the swelling around my eyes went down.:cheesygrin:

    I kid...she is pretty good with my two channel thing and did pick fabric/color.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • Bob in WI
    Bob in WI Posts: 155
    edited May 2013
    Acoustics were worse before we switched from shades to curtains. Still, if the volume is up the reflections get stupid & the music sounds awful. Fortunately, I'm past my heavy metal days. But still, some music is made to be played loud.
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited May 2013
    u
    tonyb wrote: »
    Ok chief, kindly point out where I said "high end" cables. I'll wait......have a feeling it will be a very long time too.:biggrin:

    I've always seen myself as more of a Big Man than a Chief because I move in smaller circles, not Totem based clans. And as such, our villages don't have cables of any kind but we do love our pigs (pork)! lol

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • Bob in WI
    Bob in WI Posts: 155
    edited May 2013
    I picked up a pair of Vandersteen 2Ci off CL. The holes in the sound are filled. I will note that bi wiring the Monitor 70s really changed thier sound. I thought the bass was punchier at the very least. At 2.5 times the price (new), the Vandersteens are keepers, but I am not happy about selling the Monitor 70's. I can understand how people end up with ridiculous collections of audio gear. Fortunately, I can't afford both. Thank God for the Polk e bay store & CL or I wouldn't have either.
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  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,321
    edited May 2013
    Vandies are a good speaker. Nice pickup
    Klipsch The Nines, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
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