No sub with LSIM setup.. Fine?

eclypse

Yesterday I had some free time to pack up the old speakers and put away the new boxes.. since I had all the original boxes for my 10 year old Rti setup including the sub (PSW 404) I decided I should pack that up as well along with the FXi30s I was using for the rear surround channel and go with the new pure sound of the matching LSiM 5.1.

For music It seemed like the LSiM 705s had better bass then the sub I was using. No idea if it will be fine for movies but plan to find out tonight while watching Lincoln Vampire Hunter. Also going to see if I feel like i'm missing anything without the 7th cannel.

For settings on the receiver, should I have the fronts set to full/Large? That's how I have it now. The center is at small and so is the 703s on the surrounds. The crossover is set to 40 I believe for the center and surrounds. Should they also be set at Large since theres no sub?

Also the receiver still shows a LFE setting even without a sub and is set at 250Htz? Is that fine?

nwohlford

Keeping the center and surrounds at small will redirect their bass to the 705s when the 705s are set as large. This should be the best without a sub. If you don't have a sub, the receiver should send the LFE to the front speakers as well. You might play around with moving the center and surrounds crossover up to 60 or 80 Hz.

eclypse

Ok thanks.. I believe I've read that the LFE on this receiver should always be set at 120Htz though I don't know if that matters if I don't have the sub connected.

nwohlford

I think Audyssey does suggest 120 Hz, but without a sub it should not make a difference.

leroyjr1

Without a sub I'd set them all to large. All of those speakers are very capable handling lower frequencies. Once you get a good sub I'd set then all to small crossed at 60 or 80hz.

chris23120

I would be surprised if you don't need a sub for HT. Given that your using a receiver to power your LSIm. Although, if its a small room you may be fine. I have been hearing a lot of good things about those new Polk's. I have a large two story room that opens to a 18x15 game room upstairs, kitchen/breakfast nook, and the foyer which is 2-story so I need a lot to pressurize my space. Technically I currently run (2) 6.5's for midbass/bass in the center, (4) 8's in the towers, (2) 10's 5.2 sub, and (2) 12's 5.1 subs with 4160RMS wattage. But I also expect my drink to move when watching Jurassic Park when the puddle moves. I am thinking about setting up a 2 channel room with 707's and I would probably try it without a sub though... Enjoy your new Polk speakers!

tonyb

Just make sure in the receivers menu you set subwoofer to no or none. I don't use a sub either and never felt like I was lacking low end.

pearsall001

Here's a short but acurate article on the subject that just barely scratches the surface as to how a hi-quality sub can elevate any system. I think the troops here know my stance on the subject :razz:. You can't argue with science & physics. http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-you-need-subwoofer-for-music.html

eclypse

Watching movie now.. will report back afterwards.. if i'm sober enough to. haha

Erik Tracy

Let your ears decide if what you hear is to your liking...screw internet links....

leroyjr1

IMO for HT a sub is a must. While my 705's or a pair of 707's can put out some nice bass it just doesn't compare to a quality sub.

eclypse

Worked out just fine While watching I sat and wondered during certain scenes if I was missing the low bas but then on some action scenes like the one near the end of the church scene where abe was invited to the ball with a bunch of vampires waiting I heard that real low bas that shook the room when the guy named speed broke threw the window in a horse carriage. Loud and clear! Was surprising no doubt since my Denon receiver is only like 125 watts per channel. The train scene when the vampires tried to take down the train also had lots of low rumbly bass. Yes I felt the couch vibrate real nicely.

I'm happy with it and also just fine without the rear surrounds. Didn't feel I missed out without them.

Kinda scared now what will happen when I add a 200+ watt amp to the system! The bass may be too powerful then. Of course I wouldn't care but since I live in a condo complex with people living below they may care. I hope there will be a way to lower the amount of bass as easy as it would be if I had a sub with a volume nob. I think theres a setting in the receiver menu for bass so I should be fine.

I'll continue with this setup till I get a house.Then i'll be shopping for a great sub.

First time watching a Blu-ray movie with the new LSiM speakers! Me likely very much! haha.. DUrring the war scenes I loved hearing the bullets firing over my head from the surround speakers! Very awesome. Now i'm gona have to grab Saving Private Ryan and other war movies that were good.


Oh I did go with these settings:

Front - Large
Center- Small - crossover set at 60
Surrounds - Small and 60

Again it was crazy that it was good enough when I have a large room with many open areas. Room is 33 L x 13' W x 18' cathedral ceilings. Theres an opening on the rear side where the kitchen is and hallway on the same side to the other rooms.And also a stairway leading down to the front door. Had no problem with crazy bass before with my old sub (PSW 404). Don't feel I lost much without it with the 705s Cleaner sounding bass on top no doubt.

eclypse

Just realized these puppies are not even close to being broke in! Week on some and just got the right side 705 Wednesday!

Hope to have a couple grand to blow on a good amp for these in a couple of months. Just gota pay back the amount for the speakers first and the rest from my sales will go to the system.. like cables,oppo player and good amp or amps.

Tearing apart my monster dream PC I built year+ ago and sell it part by part and everything else I can find and old pc gaming stuff. I prob blew $15k into that PC and prob only can get around 5 now.

leroyjr1

Got any pics of your setup?

eclypse

Hell no.. I didn't get a chance today. Kids gone for the weekend though so i'll have time to get them done early tomorrow and then i'll be spending the rest of the weekend listening to music while I tear that system apart.

eclypse

I mentioned before in a post with these 705s in 2 channel stereo I keep checking that I had the sub off cause the bass was so good and low in music. I even got behind the sub and made sure I had it turned off haha. I did swap the sub on and off in the receiver menus and made the proper settings for the fronts as well while seeing if I could just use the front and the fronts sounded louder in music and obviously better sounding quality wise then my 10" sub.

eclypse

Thrilled with the setup and cant wait till I get a quality amp to give them what they need to come alive.

Very happy I went with the 705s for fronts over the 703s as well. And love that HUGE 706 center speaker! Glad I choose to go with that over the much smaller 704. After seeing them side by side in a video on youtube there was no way I wanted that 704. Just looked like Polk made a compromise with its size to make a smaller center speaker for people that would need it and figured the sound would also be compromised as well.

Thanks for all the help so far guys with my setup!

chris23120

pearsall001 wrote: »

Here's a short but acurate article on the subject that just barely scratches the surface as to how a hi-quality sub can elevate any system. I think the troops here know my stance on the subject :razz:. You can't argue with science & physics. http://redspade-audio.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-you-need-subwoofer-for-music.html

Agreed!

eclypse

Impossible to get a picture of the gain without real bright light on the wood like a flash light. Wood looks purple then hehe.
Real tuff to get a good pic of these period as the light and flash reflect off them so well but I did my best.

The left surround picture.. I used the original wire path in the wall that was lower for the older speaker and different layout. May get to clean that up and move the wire if were still here after this summer. Hopefully we will find a house shortly after looking for 3 years!

snake1

Extremely nice setup sir!! Those black 705s look as good as they probably sound!! Congrats bro!

leroyjr1

That tv is Huge. Very nice!

blehmbo

Can't see why your system wouldn't benefit from a good subwoofer. If you're content with what you have then don't worry about it.

eclypse

I need to play some more movies to be sure.. tonight I was hoping to do that but my wife wanted to rent some Comedy called Parental Guidance. Yeah.. no chance of anything on that one. heh

I'm stuck with that corner for now. Had a 61" DLP in front of the window for the perfect setup for years when we first moved in but the wife didn't like not having a front window and barked about it all the time. Then 5 years ago had to move it off to the corner and fit real nice there. Was planning on getting a 73" DLP but all I could get was the 82" so she gets half a window! haha. Its really surprising how good the setup sounds with a corner shot like that. I have 2 full sized couches in a "L" shape with the ends meeting about where the center of the screen is so with us sitting on the ends of the couch were in the sweet spot.

The center speaker is crazy as its so high up cause of the screen and I have to have it at such a deep angle to point the tweeter at ear height. Though its now solid up there and not budging.

The FM antenna you see above the window is temp.. Cheap piece of crap that I just got from Best Buy. Works only case the cable is long enough to just reach right where it is.. the only spot I can get all the stations in clear for HD radio. What I listen to all day long at the moment till I can grab a oppo Blu-ray player for some SACD and Flac music files. I plan on getting one of these FM antennas soon enough http://www.ebay.com/itm/GODAR-MODEL-FM1A-HIGH-END-SUPER-LOG-PERIODIC-INDOOR-FM-STEREO-HD-RADIO-ANTENNA-/251266693874?pt=US_Antennas_Dishes&hash=item3a80a97af2#ht_1018wt_1399

Gona have to play Avengers and others since the house will be empty till prob around 7-8pm.


Hmm, maybe try a couple movies from the Fast and the Furious series. I'm sure those will do.

cfrizz

WOW! Awesome set-up, congrats and enjoy.

Loud & Clear

Things:

1) I have the 73" version of that tv and love it

2) Abe Lincoln Vampire Hunter is awesome

3) A quality subwoofer adds to the experience. There is bass depth and impact that you won't experience without a quality subwoofer. Movies are cooler with that experience

4) Fantastic speakers, congrats

ZLTFUL

Loud & Clear wrote: »

Things:
3) A quality subwoofer adds to the experience. There is bass depth and impact that you won't experience without a quality subwoofer. Movies are cooler with that experience

This.
I like to use the train wreck scene from Super 8 to prove this. Run through it once with my subs disconnected and the LSi15s set to "Large". I am running a bridged Adcom GFA-555 to each (800w into 4 ohm bridged even though I never even get close to a volume that would utilize that) and there is definitely no lacking for bass.
But running through the same scene with both subs connected and the LSi15s crossed over at 60hz adds a level of impact that wasn't there before. Both will create some impressive SPLs but the subs will make the windows upstairs rattle and the back panel of the TV vibrate audibly.

There is nothing wrong with not running subs at all but there is also no arguing that a quality sub is designed specifically to hit notes lower that either of these towers are capable of.
Room size is also huge. My room opens into the dining room and the kitchen so I am not just trying to proessurize my living room but my living room, dining area and kitchen along with the stairs heading up.

A side observation, but also a pet peeve of mine...you have these great speakers but you are running 2 different brands/type of speaker wire to your surrounds. Not that it makes all that much of a difference but it is sort of like putting WalMart special tires on your Ferrari...

eclypse

ZLTFUL wrote: »

A side observation, but also a pet peeve of mine...you have these great speakers but you are running 2 different brands/type of speaker wire to your surrounds. Not that it makes all that much of a difference but it is sort of like putting WalMart special tires on your Ferrari...

Theirs nothing that can be done about that since all the speaker wire was purchased 10 years ago and the side surrounds and rear surrounds are running under the carpet. The original stuff I bought says "Monster Cable High Resolution Precision Stranded "Time Correct" Speaker Cable with Magnetic Flux tube and LPE Dielectric" and is like 10 gauge.

The new stuff that I bought cause I moved both the left surround and rear surround to a new location and could not remove the original cable to reuse is also Monster Brand and says "XP HP. CI . Custom install in the wall CL3 rated High Performance Precision stranded "Time Correct" speaker cable with Magnetic flux tube and LPE Dielectric and measured at 14 gauge.

That's the best I could do without ripping up the carpet for the 2nd time in 10 years to replace it all.

I put a lot of work searching for the same or close to the same with the same specs.

Let me add that the only speaker currently that uses the new cable is the right surround since I have removed the rear channels. I believe its a 50 foot run.

be83663

You will definitely benefit from an amplifier. Consider getting a subwoofer later when you have a house then.
I have two subwoofers, but when I try to calibrate it with my Marantz AV8801, it tells me to turn the volume knob all the way down to 5/50, only 10% of its volume capacity, which my new LSi25 subwoofer is capable of producing to the same extent/degree, which I noticed when my Marants is calibrating the LSi25s' subwoofer as well; no difference in volume level between the LSi25 Subwoofer section and my Velodyne DSL-5000R Subwoofers, with the Velodyne's RMS= 600 watts/subwoofer.
The point is 705s' subwoofer sections are Very Capable.
I would maintain your setup for now, Front= Large and the Rest= Small with 60-80 Hz HPFs; actually, even after you get your 200 wpc amplifier in the future, without a subwoofer, if you are getting an amplifier.
People here can tell you anything, e.g. change your speaker wires, get a sound absorbing pads/acoustic pads for your walls, get an amplifier instead because all the receiver companies should not even have existed in the first place and I get a 5% incentive for making someone get an amplifier instead of using his/her receiver, etc.
By the way, an awesome Computer you had built there in your link: looked like a Super Ultra Gaming Rig!!!

eclypse

Thanks for the reply and noticing my rig

Was featured in the past on [H]ardforums.com for rig of the week! Can you believe I barely used it? Taking me forever to get it all apart and boxed up ready to sell.

Took me about 3+ months to build the first one before I upgraded it from 3 to 4 cards which was a big deal as I upgraded all the cooling and power (dual 1200 WATTs P/Ss). Threw a ton of money at it a few times.

40 year old that's lost interest in gaming (slowly).. hehe. I enjoy building the PC more then using.

Man the audio system I could build if I caught the HT bug 2-3 years sooner.

eclypse

One bug at a time please! lol

I'm already listening to music most of the day with just Stereo.