DD-18 or SVS PB2+?

VR3

Which would win and why?

Dr. Spec

The DD-18 is one of the most (if not THE most) sophisticated subwoofers on the planet. It also costs about $3,200 delivered.

"Win" means different things to different people. Your question is way too broad. Narrow it down.

gatemplin

.

VR3

Which will play louder? and by how much?

Which will go lower? and by how much?

Overall, is the DD-18 the best in its class?

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
Which will play louder? and by how much?

Which will go lower? and by how much?

Overall, is the DD-18 the best in its class?

Do you want sheer volume or distortion limited volume? If so, what distortion limit do you want to use?

Both will troll into the near single digits if the PB2+ is set to the 16 Hz tune, but frankly the PB2+ is not at its most efficient in that tune and was not designed at the outset to be an ultra deep trawler.

Is the DD-18 best in the $3500 price class? As a turn-key ultra-high tech self-adjusting sub, yes. To get similar flexibility, you would need a parametric EQ like the Rane RE-17 and the know-how to manually run sweeps in-room. The SVS B4-Plus package offers ultimately more performance and flexibility than the DD-18 for the same $$, but all the components are separate and you need to make the adjustments after running in-room sweeps.

VR3

Alright, well I know very little about at what distortion. So, just throw in a number! lol!

My Dad went into Tweeter the other day with a SPL meter. The DD-18 hit 139db in the store.......this is why I'm asking.


Thank ya for ur time so far!

Dr. Spec

The Servo circuit in the DD-18 can be user adjusted to limit distortion anywhere from 1-3%. Obviously, the lower the distortion limit you select, the less loudly the sub will play. Velo allows up to 3% THD for HT applications, where maximum output becomes more important.

Regardless, even 3% is extremely conservative, and whatever bass the DD-18 does generate - even at maximum playback volume - will be extremely clean.

The SVS does not employ a servo circuit, and can ultimately be overdriven to audible distortion and/or bottoming if the user is being just plain stupid. The point where a PB2+ starts to exhibit audible stress will be VERY loud in a typical home environment.

SVS designed the PB2+ to put up low distortion big-SPL numbers with all 3 ports open in the >22 Hz region.

Can a PB2+ outgun a DD-18 when held to the same THD limit at all frequencies above 22 Hz? I really don't know. And I doubt I'll ever find out either - the DD-18 is extremely expensive. Maybe a pro-reviewer will do a high end shoot-out with some of these $3k-$5k subs.

VR3

Thank you for your response. My Dad is interested in the DD-18. I still think SVS can smoke it for less price. However, a small box with abilities to play 139 db is pretty darn impressive.

None the less, thanks for your time.

- Sid

Dr. Spec

The DD-18 would be an extremely good subwoofer - world class. I would not recommend against it - how could anyone? What is the asking price with tax where he will buy it?

For the same $$, the B4-Plus "package" will definitely outperform it, and offer even better tuning and EQ flexibility, at the expense of more owner involvement.

VR3

Its right over 4 grand. around 4.5k i believe. Thats at tweeter of course. You can find it much cheaper I'm sure.

Dr. Spec

Also, the RS meter is notoriously unreliable at extreme sound pressure levels in the bass region.

139 dB is also WAY beyond the scale of the meter; the highest scale is 120 dB with +6 representing 126 dB.

Regardless, any reading on the meter would be highly dependent on room location and distance from the subwoofer.

The HGS-18 (the DD-18 predecessor) was actually not known for its extreme output capability due to the servo circuit limiting volume to keep THD low. I would imagine the DD-18 follows suit in this regard.

In the end, the DD-18 I'm sure will play loud enough for nearly anyone in a normal size room.

Because I'm a tweaker with a bunch of measurement gear, I'd take a gorgeous wood finish PB2-Ultra and the Rane RE-17 over a DD-18 anyday, and save a bunch of $$ in the process.

But if someone wants a high-tech, turn-key, all-in-one package, and they are shy about manual measurements and tweaking, the DD-18 is hard to beat.

polkatese

Just for drool and entertainment:

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/volume_10_4/velodyne-dd-18-subwoofer-12-2003-part-1.html

the future of all sub calibrations assist, I hope?

I have several subwoofers in my system, so I then turned on a second sub (Velodyne HGS-18), and got the following graph when no EQ was in the system (Preset 6). Notice that the graph is a little flatter than with just one sub. This supports the idea that two subs are better than one for a flat response.

Interesting, I thought two subs calibrations is more challenging than one?

pjdami

Holy cow. 5 grand!! Way more than I would want to pay for a sub right now. Very nice though. This is definitely the future now. Some ultra low THD numbers as well.

Ironic they show the frequency response curves and how to flatten the peaks since I'm toying around with that now.

Very nice sub indeed.

Like Doc says though, just goes to show the performance / price ratio one can get with a SVS.

Dr. Spec

Get a load of the thread over at HTF on the DD-18. Hi-jacked by an overenthusiastic SVS owner and then the gloves came off. I spent quite of bit of time supporting the Velo and debunking the rhetoric. It was ultimately an informative thread, last time I checked anyway.

pjdami

Wow. Interesting thread over there.

This is the comment that takes the cake:

i find it very interested how "loyal" SVS owners are. i would love to try out some of their stuff, however i would feel cheated that i could build the same thing (most likely better) for less in my basement. i cannot, i repeat, CANNOT build anything close to a DD-18 in my basement.

Followed by the other person:

You can build a better sub (than the B4) in your basement...could you build one for me?

Kind of funny actually. What really needs to happen is a shootout of all the top subs by a professional and unbiased third party. I'm kind of surprised that it has actually taken this long.

I'm purchasing my SVS sub on "blind faith" but how could so many satisfied customers be wrong? I have put my trust in the hands of reputable and loyal Polksters here on this forum like I have before; I'm sure that I will be thrilled and the price of the Velo DDs and RELs are just too much for me to swallow given the price / performance ratio and asthetics that the new furniture grade finishes SVS provide.

goingganzo

i loved my velo it was a great sub god rets it soul but for the same price as a velo cht 12 you can get into svs. i think i just might have to clone a svs b4 with the av15. my gola is to get it done by next christmas.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by goingganzo
i think i just might have to clone a svs b4 with the av15

The push pull cabinet will be a tough nut to crack. I'd guess it would take some pretty serious wood working skills to pull that one off sucessfully. The interior bracing must have taken a lot of planning and forethought.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by pjdami
I'm sure that I will be thrilled and the price of the Velo DDs and RELs are just too much for me to swallow given the price / performance ratio and asthetics that the new furniture grade finishes SVS provide.

Agreed. Aside from the unique high level connection REL uses (and who uses high level these days anyway?), consider what REL offers for the asking price.

What REL is comparable to the PB1+ in terms of features and performance?

The Stentor III only uses a single 10" driver, a single non-flared TL port, and a 300 watt amp. And how much does that model cost?

goingganzo

i have 2 aces up my seleve when i atempt this. my dad is a architect and my brother in law is a engener and he dues not drive a train.

dave shepard

Originally posted by goingganzo
i have 2 aces up my seleve when i atempt this. my dad is a architect and my brother in law is a engener and he dues not drive a train.

I wish you luck and am sure it will be a fun experiance but it takes more then a couple of degrees to get the job done right, it takes a true understanding of all the aspects, a slue of high priced equipment and repeated build attempts to get it done the way SVS has. That is where most of the manufacturing costs are and to me are worth every penny.

Good luck and have fun

Dave

Dr. Spec

The only way to build a B4 right would be to reverse engineer one. Tom V has well over 100 hours of ground plane time invested in several iterations of the B4 design. Different drivers, alignments, cabinets, bracing, damping materials, port locations, vent lengths, etc.

goingganzo

hey it olny costs for the mdfb and time and if i cant get it to work i will go with my backup plans eather ib or a standerd ported box with 12-4in flaired ports and 4 av15 mkII. with the new mkII ver you dont need as big of a box. hey you never know i herd there is suposto be this new sub at sema that can sitting on the floor no baffel pruduce 120db at 20hz so you never know.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by goingganzo
hey you never know i herd there is suposto be this new sub at sema that can sitting on the floor no baffel pruduce 120db at 20hz so you never know.

I heard the same thing, it's an Adire driver, probably an 18" version of the XBL Tumult. Look for it at CES in January 2004.

goingganzo

oops sema lol i ment ces i wish i could go. i think i herd some were the sub ahs like 6 in of x max or they are working on sothing like that.