Receivers

audiobliss · December 2003

Hi. This is my first post on this forum or any forum, so it might take me a while to get used to the idea. Anyways, I'm 16 years old and am interested in getting into the audio world. I've already done a bit of research and have decided on a Yamaha HTR-5660 or HTR-5590, depending on how much money I can dish out. I have considered maybe the Marantz SR5400/6400 and the Denon AVR-1804. What do you guys think about these receivers? Is there another one I should be considering. Thanks.

audiobliss · December 2003

By the way, I'm thinkging about later buying Polk R50 speakers for the mains, though I'm also considering Klipsch, maybe Wharfedale, and Energy speakers. I will mainly (at least 95%) listen to musci, though I want to be able to later add more speakers and start utilizing the home theater abilities when I get a more favorable position (in several years, probably). Thanks.
Also, what do you guys think about the speaker posibilities? I probably won't buy any until later next year.

warviper · December 2003

ive just started down the audio path and in my opinion you should look down the used path. you will have nicer gear for the buck and most people who buy the nicer speakers and amps dont abuse the stuff. I got a pair of ls 90s for 350.00 a cs1000p for 550.00 and i had a guy i knew in a home electronics store who helped me get some stuff slightly above cost " yamaha rx2300 for 525.00 and a klipsch rsw12 for 650.00. paying retail will realy drag down the amount of stuff you can buy. but thats just my opinion. good luck:D

steveinaz · December 2003

Warviper makes a good point about used gear.

The Yamaha, Denon,and Marantz choice will really come down to power output and features--as they are all good quality components. I would recommend you select your speakers first, then you'll know how much power you need to drive them to the levels you desire.

I don't know your level of audio knowledge, so bare with me; When you have selected a speaker system, look at it's efficiency rating, sometimes called "SPL" (Sound Pressure Level). This is normally quoted with 1 watt of input, with the measuring microphone 1 meter from the speaker. The value is expressed in "dB" or decibles. The higher this value, the less wattage is required to produce a given volume level (hence, efficiency).

Most "typical" speakers are rated around 90db, but it can vary wildly. This would mean that at 1 watt of input, the speaker would reproduce 90 decible level of music (at 1 meter).

Understand that most humans require a decible change of 3dB to hear any difference in level, and a doubling of power is required to increase the signal by 3dB, so with that in mind, just take the SPL of your speakers, double the wattage (increasing SPL by 3db increments) to determine how much power you need:

Using a speaker rated at 90dB @ 1watt/1 meter as an example

Watts_______________________dB
1

90db (Baseline figures)
2

93db
4

96db
8

99db
16

102db
32

105db
64

108db
128

111db

See the pattern? a doubling of power output only raises SPL by 3db. How does this "techo-babble" help you? It lets you know how much amplifier power you need to drive your speakers to the levels you like, as a guideline 110dB is pretty damn loud-near concert levels. With the sample speaker above, you'd need about 128watts to achieve this level. Keep in mind that many speakers also state a "maximum SPL" which, if driven past this output, can damage drivers and/or crossover components.

pjdami · December 2003

Audiobliss,

It would help us if you gave us a budget that you would like to spend on your receiver.

If you like Yamaha, I would consider the RXV line over the HTR line. You get preouts on the RXV line so you can add an external amp later if you need to. Very nice feature to have and I wouldn't buy a receiver without this feature. Also the RXV line has gold plated RCA jacks, an aluminum brushed volume knob (vs plastic)... all stuff that makes it a little bit nicer and at the same price if you look around hard enough.

I agree with the above poster that you should decide which speakers you would like first and then get the electronics to support those speakers. Mating speakers and electronics is key.

I would also add Pioneer Elite and NAD to your list for receivers.

Don't forget ... PREOUTS!! very important.

Paul

Terrax · December 2003

Welcome to the Forum, audiobliss. I would agree with warviper, if if you decide to go with Yamaha, go with the RXV line over the HTR. Also, if you are limited in your budget, then look into the Wharfedales, they are an outstandingly musical speaker. And are priced extremely low for the quality of sound they put out. If you do look into the Wharfedales, look at the Evo line, awesome speakers. If you had said you were more into HT, then I would have suggested some Polks.

Terry

audiobliss · December 2003

Thanks a lot, guys. From looking at all the other posts on the forum and mine also, I am very impressed with the responsiveness and helpfullness of everyone here.

Warviper, thanks for bringing up the used idea; I hadn't really considered it, though it sounds like it might be a good avenue.

Hhmm.. About the decibels; I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying: in my price range I'm not going to be able to afford a whole lot of watts, so I need a speaker that is sensitive; right?
My budget... I'm planning on this being a Christmas present (from parents), though considering I'm probably going to have to help out with it and it being close to Christmas and I haven't yet picked it out, I may just wait a month or so. (Did I mention I like commas & semi-colons?) Anyways, my budget is really about $500, though I have that much again set aside, a part of which I could use to get a little nicer unit.

I've just noticed that the HTR line is only sold at Best Buy and Yamaha doesn't post their prices on their website; does this mean that they're discountinued? I've looked at the RX-V540/640 at Now Audio Video and I think I will spring for one of those, instead.

I listened to Wharfedales earlier this year and compared them to some Klipsch (SF-2). I decided that the Klipsch put out more bass but also seem to muddy the whole range. Idk, but I thought the Wharfedales sounded really good albeit with a lack in the lower frequencies, which will vary from speaker to speaker. Again, I appreciate the unbiased advice, as a newcomer could be easily led down the wrong path.

For a little more information on how I will be using this system, providing it actually materializes. :-) As I said, I will mainly listen to music and that at very low volume levels. I'm homeschooled and thus could easily listen to music about all day, though quitely so as to not interfere with, umm, thinkin'. However, I will also want to turn it up pretty loud on weekends and eventually (pretty-doggone) loud when I finish building the whole system and start watching more DVDs. BTW, I mainly listen to country, oldies, and some pop & rock.

Is it foolish to buy a receiver and then match it to some speakers? In this situation, I think it would be much more convenient for me to buy the receiver and then get some speakers. If this is just totally foolish, then I guess I could get the speakers first. Just curious, how come you wouldn't recommend Polk speakers for music? And what about Energy speakers? I haven't seen them mentioned anywhere in the forum, yet. I think the Klipsch reference series sounds better than the Synergies, and I've thought about just starting out with some bookshelf speakers and then filling it out, due to the price.

I thank you all again.

steveinaz · December 2003

You can get the receiver first, its just easier to build around speakers. Once you find out how much power you have, than you might limit your search for speakers based on that info.

I think Polk's work fantastically in either HT or exclusively audio setups--but speakers are a very personal choice, and should definitely be auditioned. Everyone has their own particular preferences when it comes to the sound of speakers; ultimately you need to buy what sounds best to you, regardless of brand, price or popular opinion.

Terrax · December 2003

I totally agree with Steve, your choice of speakers should and will be yours and yours alone, as you are the one to listen and live with them. My reference to Wharfedales for music and Polk for HT is of course an opinion, but one that comes from having demo'd or owning different models from both companies. And certainly Polk makes fantastic speakers that are very musical as well, but certain models seem handle music better than others, and the same holds true for HT.

You mentioned Now Audio Video, we have one of those here in NC. If it is the same that is.

audiobliss · December 2003

The Now Audio Video is probably the same, as I live in NC, also.

Terrax · December 2003

As for Klipsch, the reference series will run into to major bucks. They are very nice speakers but for the money, others can be had for less money that can provide as good of a musical experience. But if you are interested in Klipsch, I have a pair of Epic CF-1's (That I purchased new in 94 from Now! Audio Video in Winston Salem) I would consider selling for a very nice price, the catch is, one of them needs one mid bass driver replaced which can still be ordered from Klipsch for 158.00 plus shipping. The CF-1's are an awesome speaker with killer sound stage and imaging. Just a thought.

audiobliss · December 2003

I've just discovered Yamaha's RX-V1300/1400. They have some really good specs, and the MSRP is $799. Is the 1300 discontinued? Anyways, I was wondering if anybody has either of these, or knows anything that would discourage me from pursuing them as possibilities. Thanks.

audiobliss · December 2003

After comparing the two (the RX-V1300/1400), I've decided that, unless I come across a real cheap 1300, I'm going to TRY to go with the 1400. It looks real sweet. It'll almost be like I'm hangin' with the big boys.

Ray198 · December 2003

I recently set-up my system with a Denon AVR-1804. The Denon has 90 watts per channel and is ready for 6.1. It has an on screen display which I find useful since I love to tweak the settings and it sounds great with my Polk RM6700's and a Polk Sub PSW404. My friends and I cannot believe the sound with HT or music. It sounds very clear with very little distortion even at very high levels. I got the Denon from an online outfit called ABT for $450 including tax and delivery. If you go this route, make sure you use an authorized dealer othewise Denon will not honor the warranty. I know that 6th Avenue electronics is an authorized dealer and many people seem to get good deals from them. The Polk Speaker system and the sub were $799 from Circuit City.
If you are looking for an entry level reciever/system that has a lot of bells and whistles (and a great sound too) try this one out.

You seem to be into much more sophisticated speakers than I have but compromising with my wife over the potential of taking the family room over with a lot of equipment was important. Perhaps this would also be a consideration with your folks.

Good Luck and Happy Holidays! I hope you get what you wish for.:D

Terrax · December 2003

If you go with the 1400, you will not be disappointed. Very nice receiver. I have the RXV-3300 which is last years 2nd from the top of the line receiver, just under the RX-Z1. (Which I got at a very nice price) And could be happier with my choice. The 1300 is indeed years model, the 1400 replaces it. One thing to look for if you do buy the 1400 is DPLIIx. Some on the first shipped 1400's did not include DPLIIx, the ones shipping now do.

audiobliss · December 2003

Mr. Cottrell, I thank you for your input about receivers and speakers. I have recently decided against the Denon, but I would be thrilled to have the RM6700; only thing is, I listen more to music and I tend to start looking and drooling over things I can't possibly afford; I'm sure none of y'all have that problem.

Terrax, thanks for the info on the 1400 and the warning about DPLIIx. I hope I can find it on sale after (or before) Christmas so that it will be within (financial) reach. Thanks and merry Christmas!

fireshoes · December 2003

I have the RXV2400 and like it quite a lot. The RXV1400 would be dynamite with the Polk R50's. YPAO is a really cool feature on the new Yamaha's, and it's great that component video upconversion is now available on a $799 receiver. Polk is giving away a PSW202 subwoofer with a $499 speaker purchase now through January 23rd, so since you are on a budget, you might as well get a freebie.

audiobliss · December 2003

That'd be awesome to get a free sub, too! Is there a reason I wouldn't want the R50s? (I listen to mainly music.) Is there something else in that price range that I'd be more satisfied with?

fireshoes · December 2003

The R50's are a nice tower speaker for an affordable price. I think they are quite versatile in what they play well. I mostly listen to rock, but was playing one of the Telarc classical cd's on the R50's the other day. I was surprised how good it sounded really. RTi6's or RTi8's would also be good choices, though they would likely blow your budget.

Receivers

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