Power for RTA7 5.1 system

aclpro
aclpro Posts: 16
edited April 2013 in Speakers
In the future I am looking to upgrade my system from my Yamaha rx-a720 to something with more power for my setup. I have RTIA7 fronts, CSI 6a center, and FXIa6 rears and a DSWPro550wi sub. I made the mistake of buying a AVR with no pre outs. Does more power accenuate the sound quality in all volume ranges or just part of them? Also would I be better to buy a HT Pre/ Post system vs a high powered avr? I oooked at the UMC 200 Emotiva and XPR 5 amp. Has anyone heard anything about their XMC1?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited April 2013
    Get one of the Pioneer Elite SC series AVR 's and be done.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • SugarmillMan
    SugarmillMan Posts: 175
    edited April 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Get one of the Pioneer Elite SC series AVR 's and be done.

    You can certainly take this advice-or you can also consider a high quality class A or AB amplifier along with a newer receiver with preouts as your next upgrade. The Pioneer Elite SC series are excellent receivers but they have an internal class D amplifier which some consider to be somewhat inferrior in sound quality to an external Class A or AB amps.

    Your call. Personally, I like the ability to have an external amplifier in my system. If you later decide to upgrade your speakers, you will wish you had that amp.
    Fronts:B&W 804 Diamonds, Center: B&W HTM2 Diamond, Surrounds: PolkAudio LSi F/X (4)
    Subwoofer: HSU VTK3-MK3
    Electronics: Onkyo TX-NR 3010 receiver, Parasound Halo A31 amp, NAD T975 amp
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  • aclpro
    aclpro Posts: 16
    edited April 2013
    What will I notice different in sound from the added power?
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited April 2013
    From the 140wpc Pioneer Elite SC-xx AVR? You bet.

    I have basically the same speaker set up in my HT rig, but with the 660 sub. I use the SC-37 to drive it all, does an excellent job and I don't feel the need for an external power amp in the least.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • aclpro
    aclpro Posts: 16
    edited April 2013
    So does that put me in the SC67 range. I can afford that not sure processor / amps are in my budget. If can get my neighbor to buy my Yamaha and maybe sell a guitar and amp or two.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited April 2013
    Yes, the SC-67 is the newer version of what I have. Shop around as there are "better" prices to be had.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Gulfstrings
    Gulfstrings Posts: 313
    edited April 2013
    I have the same speakers (different sub only) and changed from a receiver to seperates a couple years ago. I was using an Onkyo 7007 receiver only, then added an NAD 5 channel power amp. My wife, who is not a serious listener, commented immediately on the improvement. I have since changed-out seperates (see sig below) and added more power ... I believe that doing so has added yet another level of performance from my speakers. It has long been asserted that the RTi series loves power and it definitely seems legit.
    Marantz AV7005
    Marantz MM7055
    Onkyo DX-755 CdP
    Oppo BDP-93
    Technics SL-1301/Shure M97xE
    Polk RTi A7s
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk FXi A6s
    Velodyne VDR10-BV
    Panamax M5100-PM
    Antec VERIS A/V Cooler x 2
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  • jbooker82
    jbooker82 Posts: 1,627
    edited April 2013
    aclpro wrote: »
    What will I notice different in sound from the added power?

    Your A7's will sound better and have harder hitting bass.
    AVR: Onkyo Tx-NR808
    Amplifier: Carver A-753x 250 watts x 3
    Fronts: Polk RTI A7 (modded by Trey VR3)
    Center: CSI A4 (modded by Trey VR3)
    Rear: FXI A4
    Sub: Polk DSW Pro 660wi
    TV: LG Infinia 50PX950 3D
    Speaker Cable: AudioQuest Type 8
    IC: AudioQuest Black Mamba II
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,467
    edited April 2013
    jbooker82 wrote: »
    Your A7's will sound better and have harder hitting bass.

    +1 found this to be true with my A9's, much improved bass with my amp.
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited April 2013
    Geoff4rfc wrote: »
    +1 found this to be true with my A9's, much improved bass with my amp.
    +1 A dedicated amp was one of the best improvements in SQ I've made.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited April 2013
    Let's clarify a few things. Some of you are running A9's, which are much harder to drive than the A7's, so your comments don't really apply as the OP has A7's. Others were/are using AVR's that are not in the same league as the recommended Pioneer, so again, not a fair comparison.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited April 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Let's clarify a few things. Some of you are running A9's, which are much harder to drive than the A7's, so your comments don't really apply as the OP has A7's. Others were/are using AVR's that are not in the same league as the recommended Pioneer, so again, not a fair comparison.

    I had the A7's. There was no comparison when I went from my old Denon AVR to the Parasound amp. The improvements to SQ and output was awesome with the 2250. I have not tried the new Pioneers that you recommend. Based on your experience with these AVR's, I would imagine their more than adequate. I do not feel the old "close to the top of the line" Denon did my A7's the quality they deserve.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
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  • Erik Tracy
    Erik Tracy Posts: 4,673
    edited April 2013
    aclpro wrote: »
    What will I notice different in sound from the added power?
    Awesomeness....really....:cheesygrin:

    H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music.
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  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited April 2013
    Erik Tracy wrote: »
    Awesomeness....really....:cheesygrin:
    Indeed !!!
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited April 2013
    Amp up and enjoy! My $600.00 RTA-8T 22 yr old speakers have never sounded better, then having first 205wpc and now 405 wpc amp driving them. More power makes a huge difference in how good your speakers sound. Don't ever let any supposed audiophile try to convince you otherwise.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited April 2013
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Amp up and enjoy! My $600.00 RTA-8T 22 yr old speakers have never sounded better, then having first 205wpc and now 405 wpc amp driving them. More power makes a huge difference in how good your speakers sound. Don't ever let any supposed audiophile try to convince you otherwise.

    Hmmm...what happened to your words of wisdom posted earlier about excercising maturity, and self control? Would you like to report yourself now?

    Fact is you have no experience with the AVR I recommended or the speakers in question, so why are you even giving advice?
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • rpf65
    rpf65 Posts: 2,127
    edited April 2013
    If I were you, I would probably stick with an AVR, at least for now. Give a few manufacturers a listen, and decide what sounds best to your ears. Different brands soud different, and some people just don't like the sounds of certain brands. Just be sure which ever AVR you decide on has pre-outs. You simply get more bang for your buck with an AVR.

    Once you have an AVR with pre-outs, and amp can be added later. The only thing worse than buying something you don't really care for, is selling something that you really wished you hadn't.

    Weather you decide to go with seperates or AVR/amp, you'll hear a difference over all volumns, but it will usually be more pronounced at lower volumns. Good luck with whatever you decide.
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited April 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    Hmmm...what happened to your words of wisdom posted earlier about excercising maturity, and self control? Would you like to report yourself now?

    Fact is you have no experience with the AVR I recommended or the speakers in question, so why are you even giving advice?

    I'm giving advice based on the fact that I and everyone else in this thread knows that there is a definite improvement having a seperate amp added to a receiver to drive just about any speaker to their full potential. We know this because this is what we have done and have heard the improvements for ourselves. It doesn't matter what the brand of speakers or receiver is, more power is a benefit to all of them.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,535
    edited April 2013
    F1nut wrote: »
    From the 140wpc Pioneer Elite SC-xx AVR? You bet.

    I have basically the same speaker set up in my HT rig, but with the 660 sub. I use the SC-37 to drive it all, does an excellent job and I don't feel the need for an external power amp in the least.

    I've got to agree. The introduction of much improved "digital" amps was a game changer for home theater receivers. I ditched external amps altogether with the Pioneer SC-57 I bought a couple years ago. It's more than adequate by itself for most home theater systems. The difference between now and a few years ago is that the new amps actually will put out their claimed power with more than two channels driven, and can even handle speakers that run below 8 ohms without going into thermal protection or clipping.

    Bear in mind, the speakers I use are also relatively efficient and I have a good subwoofer so run the speakers set to small. If I was trying to run something like a pair of SDA-SRS up front, or less efficient speakers run set to large, I'd probably reintroduce an external amp but then it would just be a two channel amp for the main speakers.
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited April 2013
    Pioneer Elite SC-XX will handle those speakers just fine and sound fantastic. If you ever upgrade to the A9's and decide you want more power it has preouts so you can add an amp down the road, even though you probably wont need one.
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,467
    edited April 2013
    aclpro wrote: »
    What will I notice different in sound from the added power?

    Improvement in SQ.

    Here's a link to a review on the RTiA7. http://hometheaterreview.com/polk-rti-a7-floorstanding-loudspeakers-reviewed/ Contrary to the comment about unfair comparison to the A9, the special needs of the A7 are very much like that of the A9 i.e; improved sound with improved power delivery from both amps and receivers and space around the speaker is very important to sound it's best as well.

    The pioneer may get part of the job done but doubtful it's the end-all solution AKA "get this avr and be done"
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,735
    edited April 2013
    So, you have no experience with the Pioneer SC's or the A7's, yet think the demands of A9 and A7 are similar. Ok, let me tell you from personal experience, they are not. I'll be the first one to tell you that the Pioneer SC's will not drive the A9's properly, they absolutely need a power amp.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • aclpro
    aclpro Posts: 16
    edited April 2013
    This gives me a lot of things to consider. I do say I like the Marantz combo Idea a little bit better than an avr. I read some really good reviews on them as well as the Pioneer Elite. If a person were to use the separates would a amp of more than 140 watts be necessary? I could donate plasma to help fund the Marantz AV7701 Processor with a Parasound 5250v2 :cheesygrin:
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  • David R
    David R Posts: 134
    edited April 2013
    I am driving my A7s with an onk 809 which has pre outs. I would be able to add amps as required.
    Panasonic 65" Plasma - Panasonic Blu-ray. Onkyo TX-NR809 RTi A7s fronts - MK CS150s surronds.
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  • hosedagain
    hosedagain Posts: 116
    edited April 2013
    David R wrote: »
    I am driving my A7s with an onk 809 which has pre outs. I would be able to add amps as required.

    Yupp
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  • Gulfstrings
    Gulfstrings Posts: 313
    edited April 2013
    Not wishing to disrespect anyone's choices ... but the Marantz separates look really cool and sound really hot. They are the reason I've stayed with the 7s. Those speakers are absolutely 'driven to perfection' by that power combo, in my very biased opinion.
    Marantz AV7005
    Marantz MM7055
    Onkyo DX-755 CdP
    Oppo BDP-93
    Technics SL-1301/Shure M97xE
    Polk RTi A7s
    Polk CSi A6
    Polk FXi A6s
    Velodyne VDR10-BV
    Panamax M5100-PM
    Antec VERIS A/V Cooler x 2
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  • stuntman3
    stuntman3 Posts: 27
    edited April 2013
    With my humble opinion if I were in yo shoes I would buy a processor and a power amp arr 250/channel 5 driven and have peace with my self. When u decide to upgrade the speaker u won't have to change the Amp
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  • stuntman3
    stuntman3 Posts: 27
    edited April 2013
    If I were in your shoes I'd opt for a processor/preamplifier and a 250 x 5 channels High perrfomance Audio Amplifier. And have peace with my self
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  • polk500
    polk500 Posts: 1,171
    edited April 2013
    Amp them it's worth the extra coin.
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  • stuntman3
    stuntman3 Posts: 27
    edited April 2013
    With my humble opinion if I were in yo shoes I would buy a processor and a power amp arr 250/channel 5 driven and have peace with my self. When u decide to upgrade the speaker u won't have to change the Amp
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