Subwoofer volume after audyssey set up

mrmoeone

So I just did the auto set up on my receiver and the subs seems a little quiet. Is it ok to turn the volume knob up on the sub to get some more bass or does that interfere with the readings audyssey gave me? I have the LFE crossover set to 120hz, my main and center channels are 80hz and surrounds 120hz. Any help is very much appreciated

ken brydson

The auto setup is just a baseline. Adjust to your liking, there are no calibration police that will come and bust you...

kuntasensei

Reference vs. preference. Most people are used to hearing bloated bass. My first question, however, is did you observe proper Audyssey setup rules? For instance, did you use a tripod for the mic? Did you make sure to raise the mic just above the back of your seating so it didn't interfere? Did you keep the mic away from room boundaries? Did you do all the available positions during Audyssey's setup?

Ultimately, some people just like more bass... but it's important to make sure you're following some very basic rules when you run Audyssey so you aren't giving it bad data.

mrmoeone

Yup I used a tripod and used all 8 positions for the set up and I also made sure to raise the tripod up when I put it behind the couch.

kuntasensei

How close to the wall were you when you went behind the couch?

mrmoeone

It's about 6 feet away from the wall

kuntasensei

Have you checked the levels that Audyssey set using a SPL meter?

amgala

Check to see if your receiver has an option to increase the Subwoofer gain. You can increase the gain in the receiver vs. the knob on the subwoofer.

tonyb

amgala wrote: »

Check to see if your receiver has an option to increase the Subwoofer gain. You can increase the gain in the receiver vs. the knob on the subwoofer.

Good advice here, it's always a good idea to tweek the settings in the receiver after calibration. They don't always get it right. Under speaker levels in your receivers menu there should be an item for subwoofer level. See what thats set at, usually anywhere from -1 to +3 is normal. Setting it too high will overdrive some subs so don't go crazy.

ScottyDugs

so the level setting that audyssey chooses, say +4.5, is based on the 50% volume on the sub during calibration? Its confusing to me also, what if you turn the knob to 80%, or what if you switch it to +6.0 on the avr, or both?

tonyb

Scotty,
There is no right or wrong answer here. You can do both, but the key here is to listen. You don't want to overdrive the sub on those big explosions, or bottom out the driver. For the psw300, I want to say +6 and 80% volume would most likely tippy toe on overdriving that unit. Everything has limitations, Clint Eastwood says so.

Let me add Scotty, this is what we mean when you hear some of us say "dialed in". Blending that right balance between subwoofer gain and volume/crossover settings so as not to overdrive it or produce distortion. Placement of your sub also enters into the "dialed in" phrase. When it all comes together so that it's pleasing to your ears, be it movies/music, or both, then we proclaim it's "dialed in".

jeremymarcinko

Typically I would say turn up the gain in the receiver instead of the sub amp. As in my case after calibration my subs were set at -12 at 50% gain and the subs wouldn't receive enough voltage to even turn on until the volume was way loud. So I set the level to -4db and turned the subs down to 3/8 gain. But in your case already at +4.5 I would turn up the amps gain a little at a time until it sounds ideal to you.

Tbone289

ScottyDugs wrote: »

so the level setting that audyssey chooses, say +4.5, is based on the 50% volume on the sub during calibration?

The level setting that Audyssey chooses is based upon the volume that the mic is "hearing" during the calibration. It is sending the test signal through the sub, and setting the volume level so that the test signal received through the mic is at a reference volume. If you increase the volume on the back of the sub before calibration, Audyssey will decrease the sub volume on the receiver to match that reference volume during calibration, and vice-versa. You can alter the volume at the sub or the receiver after calibration with virtually the same result.

Ideally, you would want to set the volume control on the sub so that the volume on the receiver is close to 0dB after calibration. Then, since it is available via remote control, use the sub volume on the receiver to "tweak" your preference after calibration.

ScottyDugs

Im at 60% and +6.0....the 80% was just an example, It doesnt sound like im overdriving it, I just wanted to get a better understanding between the knob and avr setting....Thanks guys

chris23120

In my room Audessey sets the Micropro's on 5.1 channel to -12 and the PSW1000 on 5.2 channel to -14. For movies I typically run them at -8, and -9. All the gains are at 50%. Going into the positive scale is just for making waves in peoples drinks.

tonyb

chris23120 wrote: »

Going into the positive scale is just for making waves in peoples drinks.

......and whats wrong with that ? Nuthin' like watching Jarrasic Park when the dino's stomp and the water has waves in it only to find it really is happening in your room.

ScottyDugs

Yea i like it to rattle things...feels like you are there or at least in a theater

Tbone289

ScottyDugs wrote: »

Im at 60% and +6.0....the 80% was just an example, It doesnt sound like im overdriving it

If your receiver is setting output at +6.0 dB, and you have the sub at 60%, you could get into overdriving it if you increase much from there. I would suggest that, if you do increase the volume, that you do it from the sub volume control rather than at the receiver (since the receiver is already at +6.0 dB).

It's not at all comparing apples-to-apples, but I'm using a PSW505 in a large room and, after Audyssey calibration, my settings are somewhere around 30-40% at the sub and -2.0dB at the receiver.

ScottyDugs

when i calibrated at 50%on the sub, audyssey set the avr at +4.5 so i will just put it back.

thsmith

You need to flatten you sub frequency in room response as much as possible then run Aud.

Raise the dips by moving your sub around and tame the peaks with filters.

You have huge peaks and dips in an un-EQed sub. Aud is seeing your peaks and level matching to your mains which makes the volume lower than desired for the sub.

kuntasensei

thsmith wrote: »

Aud is seeing your peaks and level matching to your mains which makes the volume lower than desired for the sub.

Yes, but... for Audyssey to not be able to correct a peak, it would have to be greater than 9dB from the baseline (which I believe is the limit for peak correction with MultEQ XT and XT32). To my understanding, the level matching of Audyssey is based on the POST-EQUALIZATION calculated average, not the initial frequency sweeps.

I agree that you should position the sub for best response to get the best result from Audyssey (because garbage in = garbage out), but if you're saying to also add equalization before Audyssey, doesn't that introduce phase alteration into the mix? Parametric equalization always changes the phase relationship somewhat. Not that it would be a huge issue, I imagine, but then I would think that Audyssey would have to work to re-align the phase of the frequencies that you've corrected with external equalization.

thsmith

I cant answer you questions, I just know from experience you get a better result using Aud with a subwoofer if you sub is a flat as possble before you start. I dont believe an AVR AUD will ever be able to properly calibrate a sub, YMMV.

I prefer to use REW and my SVS PB13 has one filter built in and in my case that is all I need to take a 35hz peak.

The graph is an old one but illistrates that even a faily well calibrated sub has plenty of peaks and dips. In this example you see at 35hz there is a 16db delta between top and bottom.

ScottyDugs

haha wow, this is some other level stuff :eek:

kuntasensei

thsmith wrote: »

The graph is an old one but illistrates that even a faily well calibrated sub has plenty of peaks and dips. In this example you see at 35hz there is a 16db delta between top and bottom.

Yes, but as with any equalization, you can't fix dips caused by nulls in your room (and neither can Audyssey). The more you boost them, the more headroom you lose from the amp (and the muddier you can make the subwoofer sound, in extreme cases). That's why Audyssey has a limitation on how much it will try to correct nulls.

But yes, you want it as flat as possible before you start... which is why sub positioning and (if necessary) room treatments take priority over equalization. As I said, garbage in = garbage out.

Tbone289

ScottyDugs wrote: »

when i calibrated at 50%on the sub, audyssey set the avr at +4.5 so i will just put it back.

That doesn't make any sense. If Audyssey set the AVR level lower when the sub was set lower, then you're not getting consistent calibration results. What should happen is the AVR volume will be set lower when the sub is higher, and vice-versa, to achieve the same reference volume.

steveinaz

Use bass heavy music such as "Hard Day" George Michael, "Piano Smasher" Blue Man Group, etc; and set your level so bass lines are deep, but CLEAN. Bass is like sugar, and easy to over-do, always err on the side of clean bass. Your sub should never stand out, it should simply, steathly, fill-in.

All of the above advice is assuming you want quality rather than quantity of bass.

gce

mrmoeone wrote: »

So I just did the auto set up on my receiver and the subs seems a little quiet. Is it ok to turn the volume knob up on the sub to get some more bass or does that interfere with the readings audyssey gave me? I have the LFE crossover set to 120hz, my main and center channels are 80hz and surrounds 120hz. Any help is very much appreciated

If Audyssey set your speakers to Large that could be why your subs seem quiet. Try manually setting the speakers to Small and see what you get.

ScottyDugs

Tbone289 wrote: »

That doesn't make any sense. If Audyssey set the AVR level lower when the sub was set lower, then you're not getting consistent calibration results. What should happen is the AVR volume will be set lower when the sub is higher, and vice-versa, to achieve the same reference volume.

I think you are just misunderstanding...I didn't re-calibrate. I just meant originally when i first calibrated my result was +4.5 and the sub at 50%

Tbone289

ScottyDugs wrote: »

I think you are just misunderstanding...I didn't re-calibrate. I just meant originally when i first calibrated my result was +4.5 and the sub at 50%

Yes, that makes sense.

ScottyDugs

Tbone289 wrote: »

Yes, that makes sense.

While you are here...what is Virtual mode on avr?

Tbone289

ScottyDugs wrote: »

While you are here...what is Virtual mode on avr?

Virtual surround mode, as on Denon or HK AVRs? That is a mode to simulate the surround effect when using headphones or 2 speakers.