My Tube Nightmare!

Frank Z

Well folks I picked the amp up from the electronics shop today and as I suspected it didn't perform as advertised! The tech measured 12 watts per channel RMS!! That's a little less that than the 40 watts per channel that was in the Ebay listing me thinks!:mad: He also told me that he tried to test it in the pentode mode and the sine wave on his o-scope showed distortion even at the lowest possible sound level.

I've sent an email to the seller asking for a refund, but at this point I think I own a $400 boat anchor!

I know that are some really talented people that design and build their own amps, but I'll be damned if I ever buy another DIY project from anyone.

Now some of you are going to read this and think that I should have known better, should have auditioned it first, should have bought a name brand amp instead, or that I'm a booger eating moron for getting suckered into a **** deal so easily......and you are 110% correct! I hope that my screw-up serves as a lesson to anyone out there that may be close to making a big mistake and wasting their hard earned cash!

Please feel free to point fingers, snicker uncontrollably, call me names, etc, for being a gullable fool.....I deserve it! But before you click on the "Submit Bid" button remember what happened to me. You might save yourself a bit of embarrasment, and a bit of cash also!

madmax

Originally posted by Frank Z

Now some of you are going to read this and think that I should have known better, should have auditioned it first, should have bought a name brand amp instead, or that I'm a booger eating moron for getting suckered into a **** deal so easily......and you are 110% correct! I hope that my screw-up serves as a lesson to anyone out there that may be close to making a big mistake and wasting their hard earned cash!

Please feel free to point fingers, snicker uncontrollably, call me names, etc, for being a gullable fool.....I deserve it! But before you click on the "Submit Bid" button remember what happened to me. You might save yourself a bit of embarrasment, and a bit of cash also!

Don't be too hard on yourself. It all evens out in the end. I would have tried it for $400.

I'll take it off your hands for $100 shipped as a project if you want to sell it.

madmax

Frank Z

Max,
Thanks for the kind words, and the generous offer. I'll take a pass for now, I'm going to see if I get any response to my request for a refund. I'm going to give the guy a day or two to respond. I'll keep you guys up to date.

polkatese

Frank,
really sorry to hear your misfortune, I doubt the 'family" will burden you with any finger pointing. It is a hard lesson, and indeed a gamble that unfortunately didn't work out. If the seller decided not to back his product, and if you interested, I know someone that might be interested in modding the amps, and he is well versed in tube-audio enhancements. He modded my Philips CD Player with tube stage output, and had built tube amps (worked in the industry many many years), reputable, honest, and have me as a true believer of his work. I'll give you his details if you interested.

madmax

Good luck Frank! I guess I should finish the 137 other projects I started first anyway... Just remember that in the tube world the difference between 12 watts and 40 watts is A LOT!. Don't let the guy tell you any differently.
madmax

Wardsweb

Actually it's not that bad of a deal, other than it's not what you intended. The parts alone in that rig are worth a few hundred bucks. Odds are he charged about $100 to put it together. The power transformer and output transformers are expensive. I know, I have around $900 in this SET amp and it only puts out about 3.5 watts per channel. That and I did all the work myself.

Frank Z

Wardsweb,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but it's an EFFIN Lousy Deal!! The advertised a 40watt per channel and then delivers an amp that can bearly crank out 12.

If you paid for a chevy, and had a Yugo delivered.....same thing. You didn't get what you paid for.

I'll take the credit for being a chowderhead, but it's not my fault that I didn't get what I was supposed to.


BTW, I saw your post on the S&V Forums. You sir have some fantastic equipment. You should be proud!!

Wardsweb

You're right, he totally misrepresented the amp. I was just refering to cost of materials. If you don't get a refund, have you thought about selling it as a 12watt/chnl amp? DIY kits start around $500 for tube amps, so you should be able to recoup your money. Another option would be to have it looked at by a competent tech. The builder may have miscalculated some values and as such, be underdriving the tubes.

nadams

Frank- I think what wardsweb was trying to say is that you have a chevy that just isn't running right. All the parts are still there to make it a damn fine amp, it just needs a little (or a lot) of work. But I don't really know anything about tube amps, so pay me no mind.....

Frank Z

Perhaps I should have included a link to the thread that started all this fun! D'OH!!

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13911

Nadams,
I understand what is being said, my point was that I shouldn't have to "fix" anything. I paid for an amp, and did not get what was advertised.

madmax

Frank,
I agree with you 100%. If triode mode works and Pentode mode doesn't something is wrong with the amp. It was sold as working and it should have worked! It sounds to me as if pentode mode is flawed in the design. After posting my offer I started thinking it may have been bad timing. I hope you were not offended. It was all meant in a positive mannor. You did say something to the effect of thanks for the generous offer. I was not trying to be generous, it may be worth more in parts than I offered, but was thinking more along the lines of taking on a project which could benifit me in the future assuming I could figure out the problem. Then again, I am not mr supertube repairman so it is just as likely that I may not be able to fix it. I just wanted to clarify this because I was not trying to take advantage of the situation.
madmax

Frank Z

Max,
I understood your intent from the get go.

I'm going to give the seller a couple of days to respond before I do any thing else though.

F1nut

Frank,

No finger pointing is going to happen here, we're all bro's and your disappointment is ours as well.

I hope the seller is honorable and refunds your money, as he should.

Jesse

Tour2ma

Frank,
Be aware that your 30 day claim filing period is about up.

As it is ebay is only good for $175, but don't miss the dealine or ebay washes it's hands of the whole thing.

danger boy

Frank,

sorry about the raw deal you got from that seller.. that bites.

but hey anyone could have gotten into something like that..

something you might want to consider if you purchase something over say... $100 from an auction is to maybe use the escrow feature on Ebay. that way.. the money isn't released untill you give the go ahead... which would give you reasonable time to check out the tube gear before the seller gets paid. If you're not happy with the gear... you don't have to pay for the item.. If i'm not mistaken.. you as the buyer might be responsible for a nominal fee to use the escrow feature.

good luck my friend,

Al

Frank Z

DB,
Good idea, thanks.

Tour,
It really doesn't matter. I was the high bidder at $380 but did not meet the reserve price. After contacting the seller he agreed to sell it for $400. So Ebay is kinda out of the picture.

bikezappa

Frank

Sorry to here the news.

Can you tell us the testing procedure to measure watts to the speaker?

I still don't understand the measurement process, because when I tested my 300 watt Adcom to the SRS's I couldn't get more than 25 watts to the speakers before my ears started to bleed. The 25 watts was measured with voltmeter (10 volts) across a 4 ohm speaker with white noise from a CD. It was very very load.

Maybe they test the amp with a 4 or 8 ohm resister, that way you don't hear the power.

I can't imagine what 100 watts to the speaker would sound like!

Does anyone know how the power specs of any amp can be checked?

How much did they charge to test the amp Frank?

Peter

Frank Z

Can you tell us the testing procedure to measure watts to the speaker?

All I can tell you is that he used a tone generator at 1k HZ, and a oscilascope(sp). I had to leave the amp with him for a couple of days, so I wasn't able to watch the testing procedure. It cost me $39.

FWIW, This is the Mesage that I sent out yesterday to the company that actually listed the amp on ebay. Keep in mind that I have also been sending emails to the guy that built the amp, but since I'm asking for my money back, he's quit responding to my emails. Surprise!!

To Whom it May Concern,
I purchased this amp from you and DOES NOT meet the spec's that were listed. I have had this amp checked out by a local electronics repair shop and was informed that the output is only 12watts per channel, not 40 as was stated in the listing. The following is a copy of the email that was sent to Mr. Jim Munzer:

"Mr. Munzer,

I just picked up the amp from a local electronics repair shop. I took it into have it checked out. It turns out that this amp only produces a maximum of 12 watts per channel!! The technician also found a severely distorted sine wave when testing the amp in the Pentode mode. The cause of the distortion is the least of my concerns at this point. I am rather disappointed that the amp doesn't come close to the 40 watt per channel output that was stated in the Ebay listing.

I am therefore asking you for a 100% refund, including shipping and insurance costs.

Thank you in advance for your prompt response.

Frank Zimkas

And this is what they sent back.

Go ahead send it back and we will take a look at it.

To which I responded.....

Mr. Dunbar,
I appreciate your offer to look a the amp, but I've already had it checked out, as stated in my original message to you. I am seeking a full refund for the amp.
I have already paid in excess of $400 dollars for a piece of equipment that does not perform as advertised and am therefore not interested in any "repairs" that you might wish to make. I am not interested in spending $50 to send the amp back to you for repairs and not be assured that the amp will in any better condition when it is returned.

I sent a Money Order to you in good faith and did not receive what I paid for. I would ask you to refund the full amount in the same good faith manner that was extended to you. I do not think that my request is unreasonable, and I'm sure that if or roles were reversed that you would be as adamant about a refund as I am.

I will be more that happy to ship the amp back to you at the address provided as soon as I receive a refund from you. I think that this is a fair way to ensure my interests, as it was fair for you to insist on payment prior to shipping the amp to me after I agreed to purchase it.

Thanks in advance for your prompt response.

Frank Zimkas

So basically I'm still in a holding pattern to see if these folks will honor my refund request.

I wonder if any of the employees go by the name "OHBALLCOACH"?!?

Tour2ma

Originally posted by Frank Z
I wonder if any of the employees go by the name "OHBALLCOACH"?!?

LOL.... Glad to see the sense of humor in in tact...

Frank,
You may want to offer to send a cpoy of the test report to validate your stance.
Would also get you an address...

Frank Z

Tour,
If they ask for it., I'll be more than happy to send it. I do have their address too.

madmax

If he doesn't help you out let us know. Many of us can make him sorry he misrepresented the amp. There are a LOT of questions he must answer. Maybe in the 100's if you know what I mean. As a matter of fact I would need A LOT of info just to look at the amp. It could go on forever considering it is a diy project...
madmax

Frank Z

Max...I've been thinking about it......alot!:D


I'll give 'em a few days, and then I get to start playing by my rules!

Frank Z

....Well maybe. Got an email today stating that they would not give me a refund until they got the amp back. They told me that they would have Fedex pick it up at their expense. I told them to set it up and I'd have the amp ready for 'em.

I guess there's still a 50/50 chance that I'll never see my refund, but at this point I'm already out $400+ so I guess it's worth the risk.

I did receive Hoosiers ASL amp today so things are looking up!!