To Amp Or Not To Amp

Tornado Red
Tornado Red Posts: 939
edited March 2013 in Electronics
Running a hybrid system, 7.1 with Monitor 75 mains, 25c center, PSB Alpha B1 sides and Realistic Minimus 7 rears, DSW550 sub. Play a lot of SACD and blu-ray concerts, plus movies. Just replaced a Yamaha RX-V671 with a Pioneer SC-61 Elite. I've had it about a week, and I think I was expecting a bit more from the D3 amplification. I notice a bit of clarity and slightly brighter than the Yamaha. I've run MCACC a couple of times, and think I'm getting about all that's deliverable in this configuration. I still feel underpowered for the mains and center, would any of you folks agree? I do like the SC-61, and bought it for the purpose of adding an amp if I felt it was needed. I'm thinking maybe a 3 channel amp and let the SC-61 do the surrounds. Would anyone like to chime in with their thoughts? Thanks...
Post edited by Tornado Red on
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,650
    edited March 2013
    I have a Yamaha RX-A1000 that I ran initially. Things just sound better overall now with a standalone amp. The Yamaha can focus on processing signals while the amp can focus on turning it into noise.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited March 2013
    More power is always a good thing. Get a 5-7 channel amp of at least 200wpc then sit back and enjoy.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • Thorton
    Thorton Posts: 1,324
    edited March 2013
    cfrizz wrote: »
    More power is always a good thing. Get a 5-7 channel amp of at least 200wpc then sit back and enjoy.

    +1. Listen to the Lady. However, check where your calibration has set the output levels.
    _____________________________________________________________________________________________
    Ethernet Filter: GigaFOILv4 with Keces P3 LPS
    Source: Roon via ethernet to DAC interface
    DAC: Bricasti M1SE
    Pre/Pro: Marantz AV8805
    Tube Preamp Buffer: Tortuga TPB.V1
    Amp1: Nord One NC1200DM Signature, Amp2: W4S MC-5, AMP3: W4S MMC-7
    Front: Salk SoundScape 8's, Center: Salk SoundScape C7
    Surround: Polk FXIA6, Surround Back: Polk RTIA9, Atmos: Polk 70-RT
    Subs: 2 - Rythmik F25's
    IC & Speaker Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, Signal Cable
    Power Cables: Acoustic Zen, Wireworld, PS Audio
    Room Treatments: GIK Acoustics
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited March 2013
    Thorton wrote: »
    +1. Listen to the Lady. However, check where your calibration has set the output levels.

    Bingo, that Pioneer should have no problem with those speakers. Big mistake most make is running the calibration and never checking what it set everything at. Don't take an auto calibration as gospel, always,always check the settings and tweak as needed.
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • math wizard
    math wizard Posts: 106
    edited March 2013
    You can never have too much power.
    Processor - Emotiva UMC-200
    Pre-Amp (2 Ch) - Emotiva USP-1
    DSP Minidsp nanoAVR DL
    DAC (2 Ch) - Emotiva XDA-2
    Amp (Fronts) - Emotiva XPA-2
    Amp (Center/Surrounds) - Emotiva XPA-3
    CD - Emotiva ERC-1
    Fronts - Polk Audio RTi 12
    Center - Polk Audio CSi5
    Rears - Polk Audio RTiA1
    Sub - Epik Knight
    Sub EQ - Velodyne SMS-1
    Monitor - Sony XBR65X850C
    Blu-Ray - OPPO BDP-203
    Network Media Player - Chromecast Ultra
    Power Conditioner - APC H15
    Power Conditioner - Emotiva CMX-2
    PVR - DirecTV C61k
    Remote - Harmony Touch w/Hub
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  • Tornado Red
    Tornado Red Posts: 939
    edited March 2013
    Ordered an XPA-3 yesterday while they're still on sale ($100 off).
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,967
    edited March 2013
    What are the speaker levels set at in the receiver ?
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited March 2013
    Tornado Red wrote: »
    Ordered an XPA-3 yesterday while they're still on sale ($100 off).
    The Pioneers are well-liked for delivering solid power. That said, my Onkyo TX-NR1007 is pretty solid in that respect as well, and after adding the XPA-3 last week (after a long ordeal with used Adcom and Parasound amps), I'm very happy with the sound it gave me. So long as it meshes well with the rest of your system (because it really is a matter of synergy), you should be pretty happy with the XPA-3, especially for the price. I know I am so far.
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
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  • KLapinas
    KLapinas Posts: 608
    edited March 2013
    Amp!
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  • Tornado Red
    Tornado Red Posts: 939
    edited March 2013
    tonyb wrote: »
    What are the speaker levels set at in the receiver ?

    IIRC the MCACC had the front stage low, -4db or so for the mains, -6 for the center. I did tweak them up to around +3 or so, still didn't seem quite right. At higher volumes things seemed stressed, like instruments were meshing with no separation. But then, I have old ears.
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  • Tornado Red
    Tornado Red Posts: 939
    edited March 2013
    kuntasensei wrote: »
    The Pioneers are well-liked for delivering solid power. That said, my Onkyo TX-NR1007 is pretty solid in that respect as well, and after adding the XPA-3 last week (after a long ordeal with used Adcom and Parasound amps), I'm very happy with the sound it gave me. So long as it meshes well with the rest of your system (because it really is a matter of synergy), you should be pretty happy with the XPA-3, especially for the price. I know I am so far.
    Picked the XPA-3 up today in N.D., installed it this afternoon. Really impressed, it's such a good fit for me. I was expecting a better low end, above the sub. But the bonus has been things like cymbals, horns etc in the higher realms that are so clear now. It's like the speakers had been covered in a plastic film before. Had a little trouble with the 12v trigger from the Pioneer, didn't know I had to set the trigger for each program (STB, Oppo, etc). I'm pretty happy with the purchase right now, thanks for everyone's opinions, pro and con amp.
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  • kuntasensei
    kuntasensei Posts: 3,263
    edited March 2013
    Tornado Red wrote: »
    Picked the XPA-3 up today in N.D., installed it this afternoon. Really impressed, it's such a good fit for me. I was expecting a better low end, above the sub.
    Did you re-run MCACC? Since I added the XPA-3, I've actually found that I can run a little lower crossover point with my front three speakers than I used to. You may just need to tweak things a little to get a better transition to your sub. So far, I'm definitely not finding low end lacking, but that could just be my particular speakers. I do find that bass sounds a little less bloated (i.e. better initial attack, less ringing afterwards), so it may just be a matter of what you're used to hearing. It will take you a few days to really adjust to the sound and start noticing the real changes it has made in your system. Listen to something you're familiar with that has punchy bass guitar. For me, it was tracks from Tal Wilkenfeld - Transformation and Herbie Hancock - Possibilities that really made me notice the difference.

    And yeah, like you, I'm impressed by the highs. Has a very crisp sound to it, and my front three speakers definitely image better with the XPA-3 in place (and that was after having an Adcom and a Parasound, though both were being flaky, so it's hard to judge).
    Equipment list:
    Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
    Emotiva XPA-3 amp
    Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
    SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
    Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
    DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
    Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
    Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen
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  • Tornado Red
    Tornado Red Posts: 939
    edited March 2013
    kuntasensei wrote: »
    Did you re-run MCACC? Since I added the XPA-3, I've actually found that I can run a little lower crossover point with my front three speakers than I used to. You may just need to tweak things a little to get a better transition to your sub. So far, I'm definitely not finding low end lacking, but that could just be my particular speakers. I do find that bass sounds a little less bloated (i.e. better initial attack, less ringing afterwards), so it may just be a matter of what you're used to hearing. It will take you a few days to really adjust to the sound and start noticing the real changes it has made in your system. Listen to something you're familiar with that has punchy bass guitar. For me, it was tracks from Tal Wilkenfeld - Transformation and Herbie Hancock - Possibilities that really made me notice the difference.

    And yeah, like you, I'm impressed by the highs. Has a very crisp sound to it, and my front three speakers definitely image better with the XPA-3 in place (and that was after having an Adcom and a Parasound, though both were being flaky, so it's hard to judge).

    I haven't rerun MCACC yet. My plan is to "tinker to taste" over the next week or two, record what I come up with and run MCACC again and compare. Since this is a hybrid type of set up, I may end up saving 2 settings with MCACC, music and movies. And yes, I was able to adjust the sub now. I was sitting at 100hz crossover and have gone down now to 80hz with the M75s better low end. You still keep your RTi70s at "small"?
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