Low Cost Cd transport

EndersShadow

So I am looking at adding a universal player to my 2 channel system. I am not wanting to spend really more than 100.

It was suggested that I look at the Toshiba HD-XA1 or HD-A1 as well as the Sherwood SD-871. I am looking for some other suggestions as well.

The player needs to have RCA Analog outs as well as Optical or Coaxial. I really want SACD and DVD-A capabilities.

I envision connecting this device to my Audio GD NFB-5 DAC via either optical or coaxial as it has a USB connection (used by my computer) as well as an optical and coaxial.

I think oppo had a player that predates their 93 & 95 that had all these abilities but not sure how it compares.

I am aware that Pioneer has the older Elite BDP's but based on some suggestions I think I will pass on that entire series....

leroyjr1

I got a Toshiba HD-A1 DVD player for you.

EndersShadow

leroyjr1 wrote: »

I got a Toshiba HD-A1 DVD player for you.

Do you happen to know what the difference is between this and the HD-XA1 are off the top of your head? If not dont worry, I can google too

leroyjr1

EndersShadow wrote: »

Do you happen to know what the difference is between this and the HD-XA1 are off the top of your head? If not dont worry, I can google too

Better google it. Lol

EndersShadow

The XA1 has a double chassis which accounts for some of the weight differences.....

Leroy, how is the fan noise on the unit? Some folks are complaining its pretty noticeable...

leroyjr1

EndersShadow wrote: »

The XA1 has a double chassis which accounts for some of the weight differences.....

Leroy, how is the fan noise on the unit? Some folks are complaining its pretty noticeable...

Cant remember, it's been a while since I used it. Hopefully someone else could chime in.

EndersShadow

Still doing my research on some of the Oppo models, and its late so I have a stupid question, but will the Oppos even output SACD's right using just stereo? Same with DVD-A's? Am I chasing my tail there if I am using an external DAC that will only output 2 channel?

Will I get a better quality sound than just a standard CD?

tonyb

EndersShadow wrote: »

Will I get a better quality sound than just a standard CD?

Yes and no, somewhat of a crap shoot. Factor in the cost of a sacd and I think you'd be much better off sinking the coin elsewhere. Standard cd's or redbook as we like to call them, can still sound pretty darn good on decent gear. 100 bucks isn't going too far so save it for other future upgrades.

What are you using to spin cd's anyway ? The older pioneer avi59 or 79 are both universals and pretty darn good, solid build too with analog outs to boot. Used under 150 bucks most the time.

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

What are you using to spin cd's anyway ? The older pioneer avi59 or 79 are both universals and pretty darn good, solid build too with analog outs to boot. Used under 150 bucks most the time.

Right now I got nothing for spinning CD's. I am currently all digital as the Audio GD can be used as a pre but only with digital sources. I dont plan on really ever doing too much CD spinning as I plan on continuing to burn everything to FLAC, but wanted one in case someone came over with CD's and I didnt feel like making em FLAC first......

More of a convenience factor for folks coming over with CD's, SACD's, DVD-A's, etc.... Figured I wanted to cover all my options playback wise and if possible use the Audio GD's better DAC's at the same time.

Tony: doesnt look like those Pio's will output SACD or DVD-A over digital outs. Is that a common thing?

pitdogg2

EndersShadow wrote: »

Tony: doesnt look like those Pio's will output SACD or DVD-A over digital outs. Is that a common thing?

yes it is on the older machines.

FYI some DVD-audio's even when down mixed into stereo sound all wonky. I use a 3910/2900 uni player and it is set to 2 channel but on some DVD-A I find that you need a monitor to see the DVD-A first menu to select the 2ch. on the disc itself as most when first menu comes up are on the multi-channel and without a monitor(TV) of some sort you never know until sound comes out and everything sounds weird. Some DVD-A are two sided so that helps a lot. that has been my experience on these two players.

EndersShadow

pitdogg2 wrote: »

yes it is on the older machines.

FYI some DVD-audio's even when down mixed into stereo sound all wonky. I use a 3910/2900 uni player and it is set to 2 channel but on some DVD-A I find that you need a monitor to see the DVD-A first menu to select the 2ch. on the disc itself as most when first menu comes up are on the multi-channel and without a monitor(TV) of some sort you never know until sound comes out and everything sounds weird. Some DVD-A are two sided so that helps a lot. that has been my experience on these two players.

So what machines should I avoid as a result of that?

I am not looking to have to do anything other than put the disc in and hit play and use the remote to go forward, backward, etc......

I am basically looking for an older universal player that will downbix SACD and DVD-A to stereo and output it over optical or coaxial, and also play CD's. Will the any of the units below do this?

Toshiba HD-XA1
Toshiba HD-A1
Sherwood SD-871
Oppo DV-970HD DVD Player
Oppo DV-980H DVD Player
Oppo DV-981HD DVD Player
Oppo DV-983H DVD Player

EndersShadow

EndersShadow wrote: »

I am basically looking for an older universal player that will downbix SACD and DVD-A to stereo and output it over optical or coaxial, and also play CD's.

I could be wrong but given what I am finding, it doesnt look like you can output SACD or DVD-A over optical/coaxial on any of the Oppo's. Not sure if this is just for them, or for all the players listed. Regardless you can output a standard CD over optical/coax which would be what this is used for the most anyway.

So since from a CD perspective they all will be transports and for SACD and DVD-A they would all be connected via analog outputs, any thoughts on the unit with the best DAC from that list above for SACD and DVD-A?

falconcry72

A redbook CD played through your Audio GD DAC will sound better than that CD's SACD counterpart played through a $100 universal player's DAC.

Most (I think all) SACD's have a redbook layer included on them. That redbook layer CAN be output by digital coax or optical. It's just the Super Audio layer that cannot, because it's too much info. In this situation, I guarantee you that you'd be better off playing the redbook layer through a good external DAC than playing the SA layer through the player's crappy internal DAC.

EndersShadow

falconcry72 wrote: »

A redbook CD played through your Audio GD DAC will sound better than that CD's SACD counterpart played through a $100 universal player's DAC.

Most (I think all) SACD's have a redbook layer included on them. That redbook layer CAN be output by digital coax or optical. It's just the Super Audio layer that cannot, because it's too much info. In this situation, I guarantee you that you'd be better off playing the redbook layer through a good external DAC than playing the SA layer through the player's crappy internal DAC.

Ok, that helps a bit. I guess its time to dig farther into some manuals lol.

bikerboy

No player can output digital from the sacd layer. If the sacd has a hybrid layer you can output the regular cd layer via digital out. I have used my sony 333es as a digital transport and the diy shigaclone sounds better. So transports do make a difference! Do you have many sacds? I have about 6 and dont see getting a lot more.

pitdogg2

None will do over toslink/coax. Only newer players with HDMI 1.3 or above I believe will output through HDMI. My Denon 3910 has HDMI but will only push through the CD layer. I use the Denon-Link on mine to my Denon 3805
theres just too much info for the toslink/coax.

EndersShadow

bikerboy wrote: »

Do you have many sacds?

Nope, not a one, but I want to be able to play them if someone comes over with one and have it sound decent.

EndersShadow

pitdogg2 wrote: »

None will do over toslink/coax. Only newer players with HDMI 1.3 or above I believe will output through HDMI. My Denon 3910 has HDMI but will only push through the CD layer. I use the Denon-Link on mine to my Denon 3805
theres just too much info for the toslink/coax.

Good to know. Wont be using this with a HDMI reciever at all. So it sounds like I will be conecting things like this:

CD's: Digital out -> Audio GD NFB-5 -> HK Citation 11
SACD's/DVD-A's: Left/Right RCA outputs ->HK Citation 11

Correct?

falconcry72

EndersShadow wrote: »

...So it sounds like I will be using the digital out to my Audio GD NFB-5 to my HK Citation 11 pre for CD's and the Left/Right RCA outputs for SACD/DVD-A straight to the HK Citation 11 pre correct?

Yes, if you want it to sound worse. I'm telling you: playing the redbook layer of the SACD through your Audio GD DAC will sound better than playing the SA layer through the player itself. Period.

When you get a player, try both and see what you think. Now obviously a player that has a better internal DAC than your Audio GD will sound better by playing the SA layer, but you aren't going to find that in a sub $500 player. In my experience, the DAC makes MUCH more of a difference in SQ than the resolution.

Try it and find out.

EndersShadow

falconcry72 wrote: »

Yes, if you want it to sound worse. I'm telling you: playing the redbook layer of the SACD through your Audio GD DAC will sound better than playing the SA layer through the player itself. Period.

Do all SACD's have a redbook layer, or just certain ones?

falconcry72

EndersShadow wrote: »

Do all SACD's have a redbook layer, or just certain ones?

SACD's with both a SA layer and a redbook layer are known as hybrids. From SA-CD.net:

In the early days of SA-CD, most titles were released as 'single layer' i.e. SA-CD-only, but nowadays virtually all SA-CD releases are hybrid discs. Currently, more than 90% of the SA-CD catalogue consists of hybrid discs and this rate continues to rise.

http://www.sa-cd.net/faq

EndersShadow

falconcry72 wrote: »

SACD's with both a SA layer and a redbook layer are known as hybrids. From SA-CD.net:

In the early days of SA-CD, most titles were released as 'single layer' i.e. SA-CD-only, but nowadays virtually all SA-CD releases are hybrid discs. Currently, more than 90% of the SA-CD catalogue consists of hybrid discs and this rate continues to rise.

http://www.sa-cd.net/faq

Gotcha.

Gonna keep reading up on all this.

Looks like the Sherwood is running about 200 online (can only find them on ebay NIB), the Toshiba HD-XA1 is between 100-175 and the Toshiba HD-A1's are about 50 bucks.

Found this about the differences between the two Toshiba units

The XA1 has the following features not included on the A1. They are mostly cosmetic and structural. Early on there was speculation about audio differences due to the spec sheets, but so far the A1 seems to have all the audio features listed on the XA1 spec sheet.
• RS-232 port for control
• Motorized Front
• Motion Activated Backlit Remote
• Large insulated stabilizing feet
• All extruded aluminum construction (double wall)
• Different appearance

falconcry72

Yea, the difference in SQ between players can be huge, based on the DACs, but the difference in SQ between transports is much less... though still existent.

EndersShadow

falconcry72 wrote: »

Yea, the difference in SQ between players can be huge, based on the DACs, but the difference in SQ between transports is much less... though still existent.

Yeah, thats kinda why I liked the idea of using the NFB-5 as the DAC for right now and then either buy another DAC for this unit (and use the NFB-5 for my headphone amp as originally intended) or buy another DAC/heaphone amp combo for work. If nothing else it would be nice to use the same DAC for my computer and cd player to minimize (if not remove entirely) the sonic differences that would other wise exist.

erniejade

What about a denon 2900 or 2910 or any of that series

tonyb

The pioneers I mentioned both play sacd or dvd audio. Look, here's the thing, if your going to use the stereo output on a sacd player, and the stereo layer of the sacd, whats the point in getting one then ? People aren't carrying around sacd's when they come over. They are more likely to have an IPOD or music loaded on their phone. Maybe sink the coin in that direction.

That said, your best bet is a dedicated cdp. People coming over are more apt to have a cd in the car than a sacd. Also just for comparison sake, the dacs in my pioneer 59 are better than the ones in the Audio-gd nfb3 I had, so definately no slouch.

tonyb

The elites, 59 and 79, where a better built product, no blu-ray however. The bdp 51 being blu-ray of course, had some issues. The 59 and 79 were built for audio performance and it's pretty obvious once you hear them. Burr brown dacs, good analog output build, I still won't get rid of my 59. If I could mod it to accept a digital input, I would.

EndersShadow

tonyb wrote: »

The elites, 59 and 79, where a better built product, no blu-ray however. The bdp 51 being blu-ray of course, had some issues. The 59 and 79 were built for audio performance and it's pretty obvious once you hear them. Burr brown dacs, good analog output build, I still won't get rid of my 59. If I could mod it to accept a digital input, I would.

Will have to keep an eye out of these as well then. Dont care about blu-ray, just audio at this point .....

recoveryone

From a price point and if you can still find one look for a Pioneer Elite DV 45A universal player. Plays both DVD-A, SACD and DVD's 5.1 analog output for full 5.1 DVD-A and SACD but will play the CD hybrid track via coax and toslink. Has great DAC's

txcoastal1

tonyb wrote: »

The 59 and 79 were built for audio performance and it's pretty obvious once you hear them. Burr brown dacs, good analog output build, I still won't get rid of my 59. If I could mod it to accept a digital input, I would.

Now Tony that would be a great idea....SCompRacer, Fongolio, FGTV.....would that be possible?

cnh

DSkip wrote: »

I find that interesting. My BDP-51fd isn't a horrible player, but its DAC is by far its worst attribute. Did they skimp on the DAC's some when they went to BD? I've always stayed away from Pioneer's previous generation/universal players because I have issues seeing any improvements in the DAC section of an older/replaced product.

You don't like the Wolfsons in that Pioneer? They're not bad at all, pretty good resolution, a little bright up top but if you run it through a warmer amp that's less apparent! Certainly better than most dedicated CDPs below 4-500.

I do know that some prefer the B Browns over Wolfson and vice versa.

cnh