My 'New to me' SDA SRS 3.1TL

tophatjohnny

I have a set on the way next week. I wont sell my 1B's until I do the comparison. I have a neighbor that is wanting and nice looking SDA set I can get him, and money is not his concern! Room size is, so we shall see! This will be fun!

teekay0007

tophatjohnny wrote: »

I wont sell my 1B's until I do the comparison.

D'Oh! Here we go again! :razz:

tophatjohnny

teekay0007 wrote: »

D'Oh! Here we go again! :razz:

I know right??

PolkieMan

You have decided to have one set of every SDA made? :cheesygrin:

tophatjohnny wrote: »

I know right??

PolkieMan

Perhaps they are slightly unbalanced then, I always wondered why they only had one tweeter where as the smaller 1C has two

Toolfan66 wrote: »

Maybe maybe not. I to liked the 2b's over the 3.1's

Mike Reeter

Mystery wrote: »

Looks like I still need to remove little bit of residue but it looks good.
Baffle has a thin layer of oil from the goo gone I think. Looks little smooth and black.

Here is picture of residue on baffle before cleanup:
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=80337&d=1359050318

Here is after:
Attachment not found.



Man, you should have told me that before.
I may have passed on it. :twisted:
But I prolly have bought them anyways. :rolleyes:

3.1's feel like music is everywhere almost noisy while 2B's are clean and not fatiguing.
May be my room is so small and messed up for 3.1's to work properly.
I'm running music through the 3.1's just to warm them up.
Hopefully, they will come alive.

From the looks of the rust on the tweeter, I'd say these poor things have some crossover issues. My 3.1's vocals are spot on, front, dead center stage, with all the other members and instruments in their place. A very well balanced presentation with good recordings. I wouldn't give up on them yet.

nspindel

Not to mention, to me it seems like the drivers should be replaced. Even in your 'after' photos, I would still think a driver showing that amount of oxidation cannot be operating at peak performance. Same thing for your tweeters, which would be the first thing I'd replace. 3.1TL's use the RD-0198 to replace, correct? If so, I would do that mod immediately. No crossover mods required, so go straight to the new tweeter.

Mystery

Thanks for comments.

PolkieMan wrote: »

Perhaps they are slightly unbalanced then, I always wondered why they only had one tweeter where as the smaller 1C has two

From what I read, one tweeter is enough.

Mike Reeter wrote: »

From the looks of the rust on the tweeter, I'd say these poor things have some crossover issues. My 3.1's vocals are spot on, front, dead center stage, with all the other members and instruments in their place. A very well balanced presentation with good recordings. I wouldn't give up on them yet.

Mike,
I don't know how crossover issues leads to rust in tweeter.

nspindel wrote: »

Not to mention, to me it seems like the drivers should be replaced. Even in your 'after' photos, I would still think a driver showing that amount of oxidation cannot be operating at peak performance. Same thing for your tweeters, which would be the first thing I'd replace. 3.1TL's use the RD-0198 to replace, correct? If so, I would do that mod immediately. No crossover mods required, so go straight to the new tweeter.

Those rusty looking surrounds can be cleaned more.
I just did a quick wipe with some alcohol followed by windex.
Also, I don't think they need to be replaced.
I had monitor 7's with the same oxidation issue.
PO had stored them for over 10 years without use and that developed a lot of oxidation.
I cleaned them and they work fine without any problem.

These also look to be unused for few years and that's the reason for oxidation.
But I'll keep that in mind as well.

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*******

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More test results...
First of all, sound from 2B's and CRS+ are very similar.
This is expected as both have same tweeter and mids.
Both have same soft thump on low frequencies like a subwoofer with 2B's having little more/stronger.
I had a thread comparing CRS+ with BA400 that has the soft bass going to CRS+.
http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?137016-Comparison-of-Polk-SDA-CRS-with-Boston-Acoustics-A400-Bass-SDA-Mids-highs-A400.

The 3.1TL's sound different than both 2B's and CRS+ and similar like BA 400's with more mids, softer highs and boomy bass without extension or recoil.

2B's vs 3.TL's: Both are not upgraded/not modded.

---

Highs: In songs that have more violin, sax or nasaly vocals, 2B's sound amazing. In others that have overall balance of all instruments, 2B's are little veiled but still very nice and smooth.
3.1TL's highs sound little weaker than 2B's but very smooth and violin/vocals sound mixed with music. In some songs, it's hard to figure out vocals where 2B's have the vocals clear and above other music.

Mids:2B's have little less mid than I want but not far behind. They sound very good and clean.
3.1TL's sound airy, a lot more mids than I want/used to that often sound like echo/hall, vocal/violin mixed with other instruments, sometimes hard to listen to vocal due to all other instruments right at the same volume, noisy.

Lows: 2B's are less efficient than 3.1TL's. When I switch speakers, volume is lower for 2B's. Even then, I can feel subwoofer like soft bass recoil from 2B's that do not exist in 3.1TL's even at slightly higher volume. Bass is boomy on 3.1TL's.
I watched few trailers and it was obvious that 2B's go lower than 3.1TL's. Oblivion trailer shook the floor and I could feel vibration in my feet from 2B's at lower volume that was simply not there in 3.1TL's even though it sounded louder. No thump, no bass recoil. It sounds like the bass just drops off a cliff at higher frequencies rather than rolling down slowly. Both 2B's and CRS+ have that soft bass recoil you can hear/feel after a heavy bass note.
I had this same experience with BA 400's in the bass department but mids/highs are very clean in BA 400's.

As it is, I don't think 3.1TL's are any upgrade to 2B's.

naturallight

First, all i can say is WOW you have alot of stuff,jammed into what seems to be a not so large room.

Now sitting in a barn for who knows how long, i'm sure were not great for the speakers. You may want to think about at least replacing the tweeters.



But the first thing i would do is move all the other speakers out, just try and put the 3.1's in the best location you can. If they still sound harsh, and fatiguing, then you may want to replace the tweeters.



I don't know how big that room is, or were your sitting from the speakers, but it just doesn't look that big. Hate to say it, but the speakers could just be too big for the room.



I have a set of SDA 1C's, before i finished my music room, i had to put them in a 12x13 or so room.

They were, i guess passable in that room. Not unpleasant, but not something you want to turn up too much. They just didn't work too well in that room.



I have since finished my music room which is 17X30, i sit 15 feet back in the room. The 1C's are complete and total different speakers in that room. They litter ally sing in that space, everything is open, airy, nothing overbearing or harsh about them and nothing fatiguing. They sound the best they have ever sounded in the 25 or whatever years i have owned them. Plus these are all original, no upgrades done at all, so once i start that, they can only sound better...LOL



One thing i have found over the years of dragging these speakers to different houses and different rooms. The SDA's can react completely different, depending on the room size, how much junk, or furniture is in the room. These speakers want room to breath..the more space they have, the better they sound. These are only 1C's so i have no clue as to what the 3.1's want or need for space.

naturallight

OK, after reading your latest update, i'm kind of thrown for a loop on some things. Why the 3.1 bass should sound boomy, as compared to the 2B's. I would think they should be rock solid..but again i don't have the 3.1's



My 1C's are probably closer to the 3.1's then the 2B's. But there is no problem with bass, it's spot on and will kick your butt, when somebody hit's the kick drum..nothing boomy about it. No problem with vocals either. One thing i will tell you about your room. One side, has a full side wall, the other dose not. It's like a step up to another room with a railing on it.

Which may throw the 3.1's off as far how things are delivered to your seating position.



My 1C's sit about 1 foot off the back wall. Thats pretty much were they like to sit. I can't tell from your photo, but seems to be farther then that. What the recommended placement for the 3.1's i don't know, you may want to look that up.



I hate to say it, but i'm not so sure the 3.1's are going to work that great in that room. I'm not sure my 1C's would work all that well in there. Not sure what to tell you.

F1nut

I wouldn't post any more impressions until you have thoroughly checked the 3.1TL's as something isn't right. The one pic that shows the tweeter....it looks rough around the edges, not a good sign. Also check for air leaks. How long where they sitting in a barn?

Also, you need to set them up properly. Jammed into the corners with all those other speakers isn't cutting it.

Mystery

naturallight wrote: »

First, all i can say is WOW you have alot of stuff,jammed into what seems to be a not so large room.
Now sitting in a barn for who knows how long, i'm sure were not great for the speakers. You may want to think about at least replacing the tweeters.
But the first thing i would do is move all the other speakers out, just try and put the 3.1's in the best location you can. If they still sound harsh, and fatiguing, then you may want to replace the tweeters...

Yes space little tight.
The living space is around 14 x 11.
With my sofa, listening position is around 8 feet from the speakers.
Speakers are around 1.5 feet from wall.

naturallight wrote: »

OK, after reading your latest update, i'm kind of thrown for a loop on some things. Why the 3.1 bass should sound boomy, as compared to the 2B's. I would think they should be rock solid..but again i don't have the 3.1's
...
I hate to say it, but i'm not so sure the 3.1's are going to work that great in that room. I'm not sure my 1C's would work all that well in there. Not sure what to tell you.

That could be it but I'm not even concerned about setup for SDA effect yet.
Just want them to sound nice as normal speakers first.

F1nut wrote: »

I wouldn't post any more impressions until you have thoroughly checked the 3.1TL's as something isn't right. The one pic that shows the tweeter....it looks rough around the edges, not a good sign. Also check for air leaks. How long where they sitting in a barn?

Also, you need to set them up properly. Jammed into the corners with all those other speakers isn't cutting it.

Thanks for suggestions.
I'll check that tweeter. I'm okay on replacing tweeter if needed as long as mid/low sound fine.
As it is, I like the softer, smoother tweeter though.
I think problem (it may very well be what it is with 3.1TL's) is more on the mid section where everything sounds noisy and bass is weak.
BTW, I did ask seller if the speakers had been in the barn for long and he said he just got them from one of his buddies few weeks ago.
So I'm guessing from the date on first Craigslist ad, they were in barn since December 19, 2012.
This guy buys and sells every thing so I'm pretty confident he didn't have them for long.

Perfect setup is not possible here. I have both 2B's and 3.1TL's the same way and 2B's sound better.
I'll make some room upstairs so I only have 3.1TL's in there for test.

I'll open them up this weekend and check everything like any visible issues with crossover, gasket, driver etc...
Thanks.

F1nut

As it is, I like the softer, smoother tweeter though.

That's another indication that something is wrong as the SL2000 tweeter is anything but softer and smoother.

bass is weak.

Again, another indication that something is wrong. The 3.1TL's bass should dig lower than the 2B's, which in stock form I found rather weak.

I have both 2B's and 3.1TL's the same way

But they are not the same way. Your 3.1TL's are jammed into the corners and at 1.5 feet, too far away from the back wall.

naturallight

OK, i have to agree with F1..the tweeters don't look that good. But i would also go check all the screws on the drivers..make sure there all snug..at least for now.



The room size...man i have to say is just way small. The fact you don't have a wall on one side, for SDA's, just makes matters worse.



I would say, you just have to get all the other speakers out of there. Try the 3.1's about 1 foot off the back wall, and hopefully you have room to move them about 1 and a half feet from the sidewalls..if you can do that. You can move them up as needed to try and get the bass to work right.



I have to be blunt, and just say..i'm not sure you can make the 3.1's work the way you want them to.

In that size room and the way it's lay-ed out. Give it your best shot..but I just don't see it.

Mystery

F1nut wrote: »

That's another indication that something is wrong as the SL2000 tweeter is anything but softer and smoother.

I think my post was confusing when describing both speakers back and forth.
I was talking about the SL3000 tweeters on 3.1TL's that sound little softer and weaker than 2B's and I like that part on the 3.1TL's. No complain on the tweeter there.

Again, another indication that something is wrong. The 3.1TL's bass should dig lower than the 2B's, which in stock form I found rather weak.

Yes, that's something I expected from it's size, drivers and specs.
Does it help if I feed them 30hz tone for all day all night?
I think the drivers were sitting idle for years and may need proper re-break-in.
All drivers move smoothly though.

naturallight wrote: »

OK, i have to agree with F1..the tweeters don't look that good. But i would also go check all the screws on the drivers..make sure there all snug..at least for now.
In that size room and the way it's lay-ed out. Give it your best shot..but I just don't see it.

Will check what I can coming weekend.
Thanks

F1nut

I was talking about the SL3000 tweeters on 3.1TL's that sound little softer and weaker than 2B's and I like that part on the 3.1TL's. No complain on the tweeter there.

Ah, sorry for my confusion.

Does it help if I feed them 30hz tone for all day all night?
I think the drivers were sitting idle for years and may need proper re-break-in.
All drivers move smoothly though.

I would just play them as normal.

naturallight

Let me put things this way. I've had my 1C's since new. These speakers need a high current, high power amp to make them sound as good as they can. Now you have lots of equipment listed, i did not go and look this up....so may not be an issue. The 3.1's i would "assume" need the same.



I already said my 1C's didn't work to well in 12X13 foot room..not horrible, but not great for sure.

But that room had sidewalls for the SDA's...yours dose not on one side.



It would seem the larger you go in the SDA lineup...the bigger your room had better be. At least for them to open up and work..but this is only my opinion. Which may have been a problem for some people that bought them. They don't sound the same as what they heard...but if they put them in smaller rooms..no..they will just not sound the same.



This is all only my opinion on this. I would really think if the 2B's work in your room....you may want to stick with them.

4406bbl

I had a set of these for a week or so when they first came out and lack of bass was not an issue, I ended up with 1.2 tls that I later sold, now have 2.3tls. My 2.3s were light on bass and had 2 drivers wired backwards, might be your problem.

Mystery

4406bbl wrote: »

I had a set of these for a week or so when they first came out and lack of bass was not an issue, I ended up with 1.2 tls that I later sold, now have 2.3tls. My 2.3s were light on bass and had 2 drivers wired backwards, might be your problem.

It's not lack of bass but when comparing with 2B's, it doesn't go as low.
It's louder and boomy but not lower. 2B's vibrate the floor with heavy bass notes, 3.1TL's just don't go that low and bass is cut off at higher frequencies.

naturallight

I'm not sure what to say about that. Why the 3.1's should not dig deep on the bass, and be boomy on top of it, just really sounds like you have some problems in there.

I think it's time for you to start pulling drivers, one at a time. Make sure there wired right and the cones all move freely. Take a good overall look at all the drivers. There was a lot of what seemed to be rust on those speakers. Now it should not be "inside" the speakers...but, then again, they were sitting in a barn.



I would pull the PR's..look at those. They really have to move freely and if some how they have rust in them. Could be your problem. If all that seems correct, then i think you have to pull the cross-overs. Weather you want to spend the money to upgrade them is up to you.



I can pretty much tell you, in the room you have them in, they will not work to there full potential. But i don't remember my 1C's NOT being able to dig down and give out proper bass even in bad rooms.

Mystery

naturallight wrote: »

I'm not sure what to say about that. Why the 3.1's should not dig deep on the bass, and be boomy on top of it, just really sounds like you have some problems in there...

Swapped position with 2B's so now 3.1's are in the middle of room and 2B's are on the outside.
That didn't change anything.
However, when there is a heavy note in a track I felt this.
2B's have a lot of excursion/recoil after the note.
I can feel soft vibrations longer after the note.

3.1TL's start bass at around same level but there is no excursion/recoil afterwards.
The bass just hits/attacks and is gone.
I had the same experience with BA 400's.
Bass was tight, fast attack without follow through.

Does that help figure out anything?
May be the PR on 3.1TL's is supposed to behave this way, fast/tight without soft excursion.

Also, I tested with bass level at 3 O'clock and then only I get somewhat similar excursion in 3.1TL's as in 2B's with bass at 0.

naturallight

I'm trying to relate your problems to my 1C's which at least have the same size PR.

From what i can understand, your trying to say that the 2B's will hold the note till it diminishes.

If it was intended to do that in the fist place..LOL

Where the 3.1's will just hit the note..and cut it off..??



Am i close to what your trying to say??



The problem is..there could be many problems..they are in fact a "barn" find..so you never know.



My 1C's do not do what your describing. Plus i have a set of very new RTi12's sitting there which i change out. The bass is fine on both, and do nothing you describe.



I would again suggest you pull all the drivers..make sure everything is connected right, and take a close look at the PR's.



The other problem is i run way different equipment then you do. If your trying to run these off a Yamaha m50..maybe not so good. I just don't know.



At this point....you need to talk to somebody that has the 3.1's and knows alot about them.

headrott

Mystery wrote: »

Swapped position with 2B's so now 3.1's are in the middle of room and 2B's are on the outside.
That didn't change anything.
However, when there is a heavy note in a track I felt this.
2B's have a lot of excursion/recoil after the note.
I can feel soft vibrations longer after the note.

3.1TL's start bass at around same level but there is no excursion/recoil afterwards.
The bass just hits/attacks and is gone.
I had the same experience with BA 400's.
Bass was tight, fast attack without follow through.

Does that help figure out anything?
May be the PR on 3.1TL's is supposed to behave this way, fast/tight without soft excursion.

Also, I tested with bass level at 3 O'clock and then only I get somewhat similar excursion in 3.1TL's as in 2B's with bass at 0.

No, the 3.1TL's aren't suppoosed to behave that way. As others have stated, they should produce deeper and more bass than the 2B's. I would pull the PR in the 3.1TL's. I own both sets of speakers (2B's and 3.1TL's) and can say the 3.1TL's are better at everything (bass, imaging, midrange, etc) than the 2B's. I have to say, it's been a while since I've heard either set of speakers though.

F1nut

AGH! Your 3.1TL's have a problem that you need to investigate by more than just listening to them.

Mystery

naturallight wrote: »

...From what i can understand, your trying to say that the 2B's will hold the note till it diminishes.
Where the 3.1's will just hit the note..and cut it off..??
Am i close to what your trying to say??

Yes.

headrott wrote: »

No, the 3.1TL's aren't suppoosed to behave that way. As others have stated, they should produce deeper and more bass than the 2B's. I would pull the PR in the 3.1TL's. I own both sets of speakers (2B's and 3.1TL's) and can say the 3.1TL's are better at everything (bass, imaging, midrange, etc) than the 2B's. I have to say, it's been a while since I've heard either set of speakers though.

Okay. Thanks.

F1nut wrote: »

AGH! Your 3.1TL's have a problem that you need to investigate by more than just listening to them.

I'll open them up soon.
Just trying my best to describe the difference in bass response.

Drenis

F1nut wrote: »

AGH! Your 3.1TL's have a problem that you need to investigate by more than just listening to them.

^^^ This!!!!!!


Trust me. The 3.1TL's have and make some unreal bass. With properly functioning speakers and power you can make **** on coffee tables move.

I'm sure crossover upgrades will also accompany properly functioning speakers. Check those speakers thoroughly. Check the driver wiring as it's not just a full parallel run for your MW's.

I got a buddy with 4 Cerwin Vega 12" subs in his big basement. DJ Billy E - Beats 4 My Van : My 2 speakers puts his setup to shame. Get those speakers working properly. All the SRS owners here know what kind of bass these speakers put out.

Mystery

Didn't get chance to work on them last weekend.
Wifey is not happy with 3.1TL's, not only the sound (she prefers 2B's) but more on their height.
Says, it blocks TV from side viewing (can't see TV properly from kitchen) as well as it blocks half of the wall. :eek:
I may have to pass them on if I can't convince her.

nspindel

Dude, if you've got a wife who in any way, shape, or form "prefers 2B's" then you've got yourself a fine woman right there. I'd pass those 3.1's right along and keep a smile on that lady's face!

Mystery

nspindel wrote: »

Dude, if you've got a wife who in any way, shape, or form "prefers 2B's" then you've got yourself a fine woman right there. I'd pass those 3.1's right along and keep a smile on that lady's face!

Yes, she's been putting up with me.
I moved from a Philips HTIB in 2010 to house full of speakers and she's been okay so far.
But recently, we are running out of space so that's the problem.
It's only 575 sq. ft floor and that includes kitchen, dining area and living room. :eek:
Simply put, 3.1TL's may not work here. Even 2B's are getting some comments.
I may just have to settle down on CRS+ for now.

Toolfan66

So what do you want for the 3.1's? I will take them and work on the crossovers..