should I bi-amp?

andrew01

hello out there,

I have a set of polk speakers, rti a9s, csi a6, fxi a4 7 and a polk sub. these are being run by a yamaha
rxv 2071. Speakers sound great and very dynamic. Will I get a noticable benefit if I bi amp the rti a9's??
any answers would be appreciated. thanks

KellyMic

I've recently moved to bi-amping and love the improvement.

What amps are you considering?

michael1947

Your current receiver is incapable of properly driving the mentioned speakers to their prime performance levels. If you ad a nice quality amplifier to the mix to drive the A9's then bi-amping would be unnecessary. If however you picked up a 5 channel amp with 200 wpc @ 8ohms then your A9's would use whatever you fed to them up to 500 wpc so in this scenario yes, bi-amping would/could be beneficial. I use a bi-amped 5 channel Emotiva with two channels for each of my fronts and the fifth channel for my center. I'm in the process of changing out my Emotiva XPA-5 for a Parasound 5250. I will also be swapping out my SDA-SRS with my A9's when the Parasound moves in for evaluations. Best of luck.

michael1947

Pardon me for my lack of manners. WELCOME TO CLUB POLK :redface:

Bigerik

Bi amping is one of those things I always considered to be more trouble than it was worth. With very few exceptions, I'd rather spend my amp money on one really good one, rather than two of lesser quality.

zane77

Welcome to the Club You will need an amp to get the best out of the A9's

cr136124

Welcome to the club!

As others did mention, rather on trying to bi-amp your A9's, you are going to have better results on adding a nice amp to drive those speakers. The A9's can handle up to 500 watts, so they are capable of great sound when properly powered.

I did use a 5 channel amp and I did bi-amp the A9's for few weeks. But, at the end I decided to simple use a more powerful amp to drive these speakers.

Any particular amp that you are looking at right now?

Once again, welcome to the family!

F1nut

Unless you are using completely separate amps with their own power supplies and active crossovers, you are not bi-amping.

andrew01

currently it's a yamaha rxv2071, 140W per channel discrete. because I'm connecting the yamaha normally to the rti a9's, is it right to say that I dividing 140w between all the drivers? and if I bi amp I am sending 140W to midrange & tweeter, and 140w to 3 bass drivers???

ZLTFUL

It isn't necessarily dividing the power level but it is definitely reducing it. Most AVRs are rated at a 2 channel driven level meaning 2 speakers are connected while they get their rating.
So, because of the shared power supply, as you add more of a load (i.e. more speakers), the amount of power being sent to the speakers is reduced.

Example, my Yamaha 673 listed in my signature (have since upgraded to an AVR with pre-outs and separate amps) is rated at 105wpc 2 channels driven. My own measurements were around 100wpc 2 channels driven. Once I connected up all 7 speakers, I remeasured. The levels dropped to between 55-60wpc.

To do a proper bi-amp...one that would truly make a difference and that isn't just a placebo "I think it sound better" effect, you need multiple amps that aren't sharing a power supply. And you need an active pre-amp crossover signal.

math wizard

andrew01 wrote: »

hello out there,

I have a set of polk speakers, rti a9s, csi a6, fxi a4 7 and a polk sub. these are being run by a yamaha
rxv 2071. Speakers sound great and very dynamic. Will I get a noticable benefit if I bi amp the rti a9's??
any answers would be appreciated. thanks

No you won't.

Devlon

Biamping/Manufacturer's Opinions:


Denon
http://denon-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1039/~/what-are-the-advantages-of-bi-amping-and-which-amplifiers-support-this-feature%3F

Anthem
http://www.anthemav.com/index.php?view=items&cid=1%3AGeneral+FAQs&id=7%3Adoesnt-passive-biamping-waste-the-amps-power-because-each-channel-still-has-to-amplify-the-full-range-signal-and-not-just-the-highs-or-the-lows&option=com_quickfaq

Wharfedale
http://www.wharfedale.co.uk/Support/FAQ/tabid/64/Default.aspx

Arcam
http://www.arcam.co.uk/advice-and-support/technical-articles/bi-amping.htm

Marantz
http://marantz-uk.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/895/~/what-advantages-does-bi-amping-offer-and-which-(a%2Fv)-receivers%2Famplifiers

Polk Audio
http://www.polkaudio.com/polk-university/articles/bi-amp

Nad
http://nadelectronics.com/faq#biamping

Klipsch
http://resource.klipsch.com/Education/howto/bi-amping.htm

Rotel (scroll down to bi-amping)
http://www.rotel.com/NA/Support/FAQ.htm#q5

F1nut

A very detailed explanation....

http://sound.westhost.com/bi-amp.htm

chriscorv58

it will not change anything, your still using the same amplifier. all marketing hype..

BlueFox

chriscorv58 wrote: »

it will not change anything, your still using the same amplifier. all marketing hype..

Wrong. Bi means two "a combining form meaning ?twice,? ?two,? used in the formation of compound words: bifacial; bifarious."

So, it means two amps. You are probably thinking of bi-wiring.

Speedskater

I think that in this case what is meant by "the same amp" is. Most multi-channel receivers share some parts with all the channels like the power supply and the heat sinks. So the more power one of it's channels produces the less that's available for the other channels.

michael1947

To feed your A9's a 5 channel bi-amped across the front 3 speakers with two dedicated amps for each A9 is the most practical way to go in order to get near your 500 wpc. I am using an XPA-5.

ddsski

Doesn't matter how good the amps are. If the outputs are available, biamping is almost always an improvement unless speakers have such high quality crossovers that thaey are being done a disservice.

rtart

I've tried both aproaches in many systems. Years ago, when systems had 2 channels and a large amp was rated at 100wpc, my answer would be wholeheartedly to do it. Today, not so much.

In the old days, using a large solid state amp to drive the lower freq section and a lower power tube amp for the upper freqs made a lot of sense. An argument could be made that a solid state amp, with less esoteric sound quality is a better match for the bass freqs where more 'oomph' is needed, while a tube amp can provide the nuance and delicacy that the upper freqs can benefit from. Power hungry, low efficiency speakers were once the norm, and this strategy made sense. Today 90db plus efficiencies are fairly common and a decent 5 x 200wpc amp can be had in the bargain range of $3.50 per watt-channel (Emo XPA-5, for example).

In my current setup, the mains and center channel have a built-in sub amp, and thus are already bi-amped. I have, however, bi-amped the upper surrounds of the RT3000ps and heard very little if any improvement, or difference at all. I used my current Sherbourn 7x200wpc amp and an ATI 7x200wpc amp. Other than dimming the lights when I turned them on (just kidding - I have multiple 20A circuits for my HT) I noticed no difference. Of course, 200 real wpc is more than adequate for any listening level I can ever imagine. I'd expect that I could melt the voice coils in my speakers before the amps started breathing hard.

Once again, a smaller amp driving the speakers could be working pretty hard and might benefit form splitting the work with another amp. My advice is to try it out and let your ears decide.

Gatecrasher

rtart wrote: »

My advice is to try it out and let your ears decide.

That's the best advice. Everyone has an opinion.

Let your ears be the real judge.

What do you have to lose really? You don't have to use $1,000 speaker wires to try it out.

hosedagain

Good day, I have a pair of RTiA9 and a 7.1 Pioneer VSX-9040THX receiver. The receiver specs are, Average Power Output 110W per channel and Power Output of 150W per channel as per the manual. The manual does show the wiring to pre-amp the speakers. But does the receiver have enough power to drive the RTiA9 to get the full advantage of the speakers? Would I hear or benefit from using a pre-amp to drive the speakers.

Pioneer ... http://hometheatergears.com/pioneer/pioneer-vsx-9040txh-review/
Thanks in advance.
Ron

F1nut

Pre amps cannot drive speakers. I have to believe you meant a power amp and yes, to properly drive the A9's you will need a power amp.

hosedagain

F1nut wrote: »

Pre amps cannot drive speakers. I have to believe you meant a power amp and yes, to properly drive the A9's you will need a power amp.

A newbie here, yes I meant a power amp,
Any suggestions for a power amp that would be suitable
Thanks

F1nut

Price range and how many channels?

rtart

hosedagain wrote: »

A newbie here, yes I meant a power amp,
Any suggestions for a power amp that would be suitable
Thanks

Although you will here from a lot of haters, Emotiva makes decent gear at a good price. Can't beat the warranty of 5 years, either, which keeps the resale values up.

You may want to consider an XPA-3, 200wpc x 3, for your front and center speakers. Your AVR has enough power to run the side and rear (if any) surrounds at up to ear-bleeding levels. I used an Emo XPA-5 (200wpc x 5) for a couple years with a series of Pio Elite receivers. I was pleased with it, and since I bought it on sale, seems like the price increases resulted in me selling it for most of what I paid for it. I later added a pre/pro (Onkyo PR-SC885, then 886) and a UPA-2 for rear surrounds. I later bought an ATI 200wpc x 7 amp, then a Sherbourn 200wpc x 7 amp. Reecntly I added a Sherbourn 75 wpc x 2 amp for front height channels run by an Onkyo PR-SC5507.

A very good way to get into separates is doing exactly what you are doing - use a separate amp for the front and center speakers and the AVR for surrounds. Add a pre/pro later and amps as needed.

hosedagain

F1nut wrote: »

Price range and how many channels?

3 channels for the fronts and center, $500 to $700, would prefer to spend less if possible, want a least 200wpc
Thanks
Ron