MIT EXP 2 vs. MIT AVT 3 speaker cable comparison
audio_alan
Posts: 770
Yesterday I received the set of MIT AVT 3 speaker cables I bought from leroyjr1. My current MIT EXP 2's have hundreds of hours on them, and Leroy indicated the AVT 3's had about 300 hours on them, so there shouldn't be a burned in/not burned in unfairness with the comparison. According to MIT, the EXP 2's have 4 patented Articulation Poles, and the AVT 3's double that having 8 poles, so there should be a difference, right? To test that theory, I called up a friend to come over and lend me his ears for a second opinion...
I let my tube pre-amp warm up for about an hour, and then we started listening to a few different songs with my current EXP 2's, focusing on certain parts over and over.
Then I turned off my amp (but left the pre on so the tubes wouldn't go cold), and quickly swapped to the AVT 3 cables.
Right away, upon hearing the first few notes of one of our test songs, my friend said "Wow! Did you turn up the volume? The bass sounds louder!" (I hadn't even touched the tube-pre because changing volume would ruin the test.) I noticed the same things also. There was just more weight to the bass. More articulate, tactile, and punchy.
After a few songs I switched back to the EXP 2's and the weight of the bass diminished. The speakers sounded more laid back and less punchy again. This time I paid extra attention to the high end before switching again.
Once again, back to the AVT 3's and the bass weight/punch was back. Having concentrated more on the highs of the EXP 2's before the switch, I' then noticed the AVT 3's have a slight edge there too. A bit of extra clarity in the high end, but not near as drastic or noticeable as the lower frequency improvements.
After going back and forth a few times, there was no doubt in either of our minds that the AVT 3's were an upgrade over the EXP 2's (which you'd hope, since they originally sold for twice the price of EXP 2's from MIT).
Anyway, I just thought I'd share my cable test we performed last night. Well worth the purchase! Thanks again, Leroy!
I let my tube pre-amp warm up for about an hour, and then we started listening to a few different songs with my current EXP 2's, focusing on certain parts over and over.
Then I turned off my amp (but left the pre on so the tubes wouldn't go cold), and quickly swapped to the AVT 3 cables.
Right away, upon hearing the first few notes of one of our test songs, my friend said "Wow! Did you turn up the volume? The bass sounds louder!" (I hadn't even touched the tube-pre because changing volume would ruin the test.) I noticed the same things also. There was just more weight to the bass. More articulate, tactile, and punchy.
After a few songs I switched back to the EXP 2's and the weight of the bass diminished. The speakers sounded more laid back and less punchy again. This time I paid extra attention to the high end before switching again.
Once again, back to the AVT 3's and the bass weight/punch was back. Having concentrated more on the highs of the EXP 2's before the switch, I' then noticed the AVT 3's have a slight edge there too. A bit of extra clarity in the high end, but not near as drastic or noticeable as the lower frequency improvements.
After going back and forth a few times, there was no doubt in either of our minds that the AVT 3's were an upgrade over the EXP 2's (which you'd hope, since they originally sold for twice the price of EXP 2's from MIT).
Anyway, I just thought I'd share my cable test we performed last night. Well worth the purchase! Thanks again, Leroy!
Post edited by audio_alan on
Comments
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Glad you're enjoying them.
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I'm definitely enjoying them! I must have listened to music for about 4 hours last night. The only reason why I stopped was because my girlfriend want to go to bed. I was really surprised at how noticeable the difference was...
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audio_alan wrote: »The only reason why I stopped was because my girlfriend want to go to bed.
Smart man! :cheesygrin:
Everything matters in this hobby!
H9: If you don't trust what you are hearing, then maybe you need to be less invested in a hobby which all the pleasure comes from listening to music. -
Glad you're enjoying them & that you heard an "immediate" difference between the two pairs. That's how it should be. I never bought into the notion that sometimes it might take a few weeks to decipher if there's a change for the better/worse. Either you hear it or you don't."2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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So it seems like the exp were actually degrading the signal?
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Right on, nice read, glad your happy with your upgrade.
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Would you share with us/me the components that make up your system?
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looks like one or the other is lolpolkfarmboy wrote: »So it seems like the exp were actually degrading the signal? -
Reading this thread, once again it reconfirms to me to that my SDA/SRS2's deserve better speaker wires(basically 8 gauge copper wire) than what they have had for years. 2013 is the year I buy some nice upgraded speaker cables.
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polkfarmboy - Whether the EXP2's were degrading the signal or the AVT 3's were improving (or retaining more of the signal) is up for interpretation/debate. If you read MIT's literature on their "patented poles", it's about preserving more of the signal. So one way to view it would be the EXP 2's don't preserve as much of the signal...
njpolker - My equipment I used for the test is as follows:
Pioneer 100 disc CD changer (arguably the worst component in my system, thinking about buying an OPPO 103)
Choseal interconnects
Dared Tube-pre (with vintage Valvo signal tubes and a old Brimar rectifier tube)
Emotiva XPA-2 amplifier
SDA-SRS (original model, not the 1.2 or 1.2tls - unmodded, except for spikes.... I need to get my mod on!)
MIT EXP 2's and AVT 3's (of course)
P.S. And yes, I agree that obeying the girlfriend/wife's bedtime is extremely important. There are a few things still better than listening to music. :cheesygrin: -
audio_alan wrote: »...Pioneer 100 disc CD changer (arguably the worst component in my system, thinking about buying an OPPO 103)...
Does that Pioneer have digital output? If so, adding a good external DAC will yield more improvement than adding a better player at the same price point. That is unless you need other features from the 103 lke BRD playback, SACD etc.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
polkfarmboy wrote: »So it seems like the exp were actually degrading the signal?
No, they just weren't allowing the full signal to shine through.
If he moved up to the Shotgun series he'd probably triple the improvement at triple the cost. Everyone has a budget and when you hit the ceiling you need to be satisfied, but know there is better out there.
So if I have the Shotgun series but don't want to spend the $$$ for the Oracle series, does that mean the Shotguns are "degrading" the signal? Of course not.
H9"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul! -
falconcry72 wrote: »Does that Pioneer have digital output? If so, adding a good external DAC will yield more improvement than adding a better player at the same price point. That is unless you need other features from the 103 lke BRD playback, SACD etc.
No, just analog outputs on the Pioneer. It's around 20+ years old at this point.
I was thinking the Oppo 103 because it should be a good player/dac in one, and I'm wanting to get more into SACD. (I have one of the original model PS3s that also has SACD capabilities, but I think I like the idea of a high quality dedicated player that I can play CDs and SACDs on without needing to also turn on the TV to start it.) -
No, they just weren't allowing the full signal to shine through.
If he moved up to the Shotgun series he'd probably triple the improvement at triple the cost. Everyone has a budget and when you hit the ceiling you need to be satisfied, but know there is better out there.
So if I have the Shotgun series but don't want to spend the $$$ for the Oracle series, does that mean the Shotguns are "degrading" the signal? Of course not.
H9
Well said, H9. As for now, I think I'll just be happy with the incremental upgrade. Shotguns might be on my "to buy" list eventually (probably never the Oracles), but I don't think they're in the cards until I finish building my home theater / recording studio. That's seriously eating into my toy budget right now... -
I own shotgun cables also and while they're good I'd make sure everything else is up to par first. IMO the cables should be one of the last upgrades.
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audio_alan wrote: »No, just analog outputs on the Pioneer. It's around 20+ years old at this point.
I was thinking the Oppo 103 because it should be a good player/dac in one, and I'm wanting to get more into SACD. (I have one of the original model PS3s that also has SACD capabilities, but I think I like the idea of a high quality dedicated player that I can play CDs and SACDs on without needing to also turn on the TV to start it.)
Gotcha. Well, whether you go with a good player like the Oppo, or a cheap CD Transport/good external DAC solution, you are in for a big improvement! Congrats on finding good cables for your system. Cheers.2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's
Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses
Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's -
I own shotgun cables also and while they're good I'd make sure everything else is up to par first. IMO the cables should be one of the last upgrades.
Having a good set of cables (power, speakers, and IC's) is a great way to bring out any pros and cons of gear.
So yes I agree with you when one is just starting out putting together a system, but as one is moving up (or going deeper into the rabit hole as some would say) good quality cables are a must have along with room treatments IMO!! So in that regard I disagree..
But we all have our reasons on how we look at things and how we do/or would do it.. I think isolation of gear should be high on the list before fully judging gear that comes and goes out of a system.
There is no absolute in this hobby, but one should try all and judge for themself. Some of the smallest things and cheapest I have done have given some of the biggest improvments in this hobby..
I have yet to understand why some question spikes, this is the first thing that woke me up that there is a lot more one can do to bring out the best of gear and speakers..
Now I do beleive someone that is running just a basic system IE: a basic receiver and lower end speakers for a 5.1 surround. you know nothing to expensive but is happy with it and better then listening to sound from the TV? should just save their money till they want to move up the food chain. These are the people that I see that may have tried more expensive cables and dont hear any improvments. They don't have a system that brings out what they can do, and I can understand that..
Again we all have our reasons why we do things and that is OK as well. All we can do is share our experiences and hope it helps someone out.. There was a time we all followed someone to get started..
Larry. -
it seems for me, everything i have done on the way up has changed the sound to some degree... some more than others.
moving from a worn out NAD 1020/2150 to my current Acurus/Parasound was a big difference, and recapping the crossovers in my 11Ts was a big change. the rings, spikes, re-wire and such all added, but in much more subtle ways... i tightening here, more focus there...
moving from a Matrix mini to my Schiit was almost more linear. they both had positive attributes, but my ear likes the Schiit better. and even though my rig is still mid-fi, it is by far the best audio set up i have ever owned.
when i started changing cables, i was surprised how obvious the change was, but how subtle at the same time. moving to Morrows over the cheapies i had opened things up.... evened out frequencies. i didn't have to concentrate to hear it, but the largest affect was the lack of ear fatigue. i might not be saying things right, but i could hear the difference, but really couldn't explain it.
not the funny thing about this thread is everything audio_alan described about his step up in the MIT chain is how i feel about the MIT's i just put in this weekend. i bought some MIT EXP2 from grimmace19 this week, moving up from some plain Monster cables. and currently i have some Infinity RSbs i recapped the crossovers and refoamed the woofers (and refinished the veneer). the bass became more focused, and the sound-stage is a bit farther outside of the box...and there seems to be a better "blend" from the Emit to the mid range. voices and violins seem more mellow.... but none of this was slap in the face kinds of change... just little things here and there... and that is fun to me, listening to that kind of change.
i can hardly wait to start all over and move to a Pass amp... and then need everything else....Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2 -
I want a Pass Amp!!!
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i keep watching Aleph 30 auctions....just can't quite pull the trigger.I want a Pass Amp!!!Polk Lsi9
N.E.W. A-20 class A 20W
NAD 1020 completely refurbished
Keces DA-131 mk.II
Analysis Plus Copper Oval, Douglass, Morrow SUB3, Huffman Digital
Paradigm DSP-3100 v.2
