Need someone to listen.

paymontana

A very good friend from work commited suicide last night. He was only 30 ys old. He seemed like he didn't have a care in the world if you just met him. Happy go lucky guy on the outside but all broke up on the inside. This guy had some serious baggage but you would never know it. I didn't think he was the type until now . I guess the words "hind sight is 20/20 " could never ring more true. He called me at home a week ago . I thought it was just the usual B.S. session but it was a cry for help. He told me I could call him anytime. This makes me feel a little guilty in a way. I talked when I should have listened ( a very common problem in todays world). I don't know if I could have done anything to help. I don't think you could ever possibly know if you stopped someone from doing it. How do you know if it is a true cry for help or a cry for attention. I guess it doesn't really make a difference does it. You have to treat it like a bomb threat. On second thought it is impossible to stop some one from suicide short of tieing them down. You can only help them see why they should want to live. I could have given him a 100 reasons why he should live and a 100 more for each one of those.:(

My head is stil realing from the whole ordeal. Right now I have a six pack and I am drinking a silent toast to my friend Chad.
I am not looking to be someone elses baggage but I could really use some input.

Jstas

My condolences on your loss. I understand how it feels but I do not think that my views on suicide and the people who carry it out are appropriate at this time.

I assure you that there is very little that you could have actually done. If he was at a point to be considering following through with his thoughts, the only thing that would have stopped him is physical intervention and that would have made the whole thing even worse. I cannot say that he is in a better place right now because I do not know for sure. What I do know is that you cannot blame youself for his actions or his feelings. They are solely his and the best thing you could have done is be a friend to him. Even if you were "doing all the talking" in a sense, just plain, human contact makes more of a difference than anything.

We as individuals do not have the power to govern others lives so much as to be arrogant enough to think we could have stopped someone from being so foolish. We are responsible for ourselves and that is all anyone will hold you to. If that is the case then where is the logic in holding yourself responsible? I realize that it may seem harsh to say something like that and it seems as if I am rationalizing it into insignificance but that isn't my intention. You must greive for your friend. If you don't, you will cause yourself troubles, so greive. What you cannot do is blame yourself and speculate as to why he took his own life. You should be glad to have the good times you had spent with him and remember him for the man you knew him as and not the man he revealed to you in the end. It can be hard to get over it but the pain will eventually leave and all that will be left is the memories you have of him. It's your choice which memories to keep.

phoneisbusy

Wow... I was having a crappy morning with the usual crisises around work but your situation makes it seem so trival.

Paymontana, I'm sorry to hear about the loss of your friend. It's never happened to me so I won't pretend to understand how you're feeling. It has however happened to friends of mine and the devastation I've seen is more then enough emotionally for me.

Let me just say that you're not trained to be a psychologist. It does make one pause to think about how wrapped up we can be in our work and our everyday worries though. But these signs and cries for help aren't as blatant as we think they are so don't beat yourself up over it.

If your workplace has a counselling service, it might help to talk to someone there too.

regards

Dave

RuSsMaN

I'll raise a glass to your friend tonight.

Nothing I can say can magically make everything ok, but focus on the good times and the good memories, don't dwell on the bad.

My heart goes out to you, and his loved ones.

Cheers,
Russ

madmax

Sorry to hear about your friend Chad.

You said something about thinking it was the normal BS session when he called you. Chances are he looked forward to those normal BS sessions and you helped him out by doing whatever it is you normally do. Consider yourself a great friend!

madmax

dorokusai

Paymontana - I also am very sorry to hear of your loss. Don't blame yourself, its not your fault. There would be no way to tell what he would have done regardless of your interaction. If he called you, that meant he wanted to simply hear your voice at that moment...that's a good thing.

Have a drink to your friend and think of the good times...don't dwell on the current condition of things.

-Mark

Wardsweb

Don't be hard on yourself. Depression is a disease. You could not have stopped him anymore than you could have cured a cold. Granted we can lend support and a comforting hand, but the disease is still there. Even if you had driven to his house, you may stop him one, or if your lucky, two times, but you can not watch him 24/7. The truely sad part is depression can be treated. There are some great drugs out there to help get a person back on their feet. The catch-22 is they must want to get better, which is hard to do when you don't care.

madmax

Just to let you know, I've been thinking about this all day since I read about it. My heart goes out to his family and to you. Doro said (above) what I was thinking. Who knows, maybe talking with you kept this from hapening last week? In any case it is good that he had some friends (such as you) who he could talk with. I kept thinking about what I would do if I were him (although obviously I can't) but I think I would be talking to those I like the best so I would feel better. Obviously if you didn't know his intentions there is nothing you could have done. Luckily you were there for him as a friend.

My best wishes to his family and to you.
madmax

HBombToo

A common theme in all the responses is the (blame/guilt) is not your responsibility and I agree.

While in the USARMY during AIT a man whome I was very dependent on as a friend and fellow soldier chose the same path out. The flood of emotions that ran through my veins continue today and I remain with the sense I missed something and could have changed it. There were no signs and he was a rock to our entire Platoon. As time moves on the immediate sense of loss will subside but because he was your friend you will remain effected until the day you die.

Be supportive of the family and frinds your friend left behind and you SIR will be a TRUE friend of his.

Best regards and my prayers are extended.

HBomb

paymontana

Most of all people in this world spend their lives avoiding death. Why do some people seek it? I guess you live and die only by what you know. I guess he only knew pain on the inside. I blame the medical profession in away, not as individuals but as a whole. I found out he was on zoloft and prozac. I believe those are correct. His medicine had went toxic on him befor . I guess they didn't get it right this time either. I think it is arrogant of the medical profesion to think they can chemicaly alter someones brain succesfuly. Looking back the guy clearly needed counciled and medical treament. Are drugs the easy way out for treatment.That is what I should have done as a friend. I should have insisted on him seeking professional counciling. I will remember all the good things about him in time. When the clouds clear. Right now things are alittle fuzzy. Thank you for the support.


CJ

Jstas

Man, stop blaming yourself. I am going through this kind of thing with someone very close to me right now. It is not easy at all. You can talk to them and insist on medical help until you are blue in the face but if that person does not want to get help then they will not seek it.

Also, the drugs do not alter the chemicals in the brain. They merely block certain chemicals and induce others to be released in greater quanities to change moods. They are by no means a cure. They are a helping aid to keep the person from reaching thier unstable state because in that unstable state, they are often irrational in thier behavior and thought processes. By being kept away from that unstable state, it is easier for a therapist to work with the patient to find the root cause of the patients problems. Find that root cause, address it and help the patient understand it and you can help that patient change the way they react to it. Some people may never get off the medication, others will. It's all in the person. But the answer is never in a bottle, you are right about that. Therapy and just someone to talk to does way more than drugs but often timees, it cannot help without the aid or the drugs. You did all you could. If he was that hell bent on taking that way out then whether you stopped him this time or not, he would have followed through eventually. For him, he was past the brink of desperation and fully committed to taking his life.

It totally sucks but sometimes, we just can't get through to the people who need it the most. There is no sense in beating yourself up about it. Life goes on, with or without him. We all have a responsibility to our lives here and to live them to the fullest. We cannot dwell on what has happened in the past, only learn from it. Greiving is ok but obssession about what you could have or would have done is not good at all. Remember your friend. Don't ever forget him. Learn from his mistakes and learn from what you have experienced so maybe you can help someone else in the future. But please, do not follow in your friend's path of despair, blame and pain.

dorokusai

CJ - I agree with Jstas, stop beating yourself up man. It is normal to think of the coulda woulda shoulda situations after something happens. You are going thru a typical self exploration process ...let it ride. I am positive that he didn't do what he did, in order to transfer the guilt onto his friends and family.

Medicine is great, but its also a case by case basis...sometimes medicine is used a little to easily. Counseling, along with medication for an illness such as his, should have been implemented. That is not YOUR responsibility....you are suppossed to be exactly what you ARE and WERE to your friend.

If you feel the need to reach out, then get involved in the prevention of this for others...there are many programs available, that always accept volunteers.

Get some sleep, dream away, and wake up with an agenda that will help you move forward. We all wish you the best.

paymontana

I don't blame myself. I am just thinking out loud. The only one that could have saved him was himself. I know that. I've lost family members and loved ones but not to their own hands. The details are to gorey for me to repeat. I don't know how he managed as long as he did. God rest his soul. The viewing is tonight. The funeral is tommorow. I hope it will bring some kind of closure for everyone involved. Thanks again for your support.


CJ

Strong Bad

CJ:

I feel so bad for you for your loss! I can't really say much here thats already been said.

Just remember this...those BS sessions with you and your friend were most likely one of very few things in life that gave him any comfort. Be glad you were there for him and picked up the phone and listened.

Depression is a terrible thing. I've ran through some bouts of it over the years, although not as severe as your friends was. Through support of friends and family from a simple phone call and them lending an ear, it got me through it.

At the viewing, say a prayer for your friend from all of us here on the Polk forum.

John

danger boy

CJ

I'm sorry for the loss of your good friend. Hopefully it had ended his pain.. that kind of pain inside that none of us can see or feel. I know you miss him dearly... but think of the great times you had... and keep those memories close to your heart.

Yes raise a glass or two to the times you and he had fun.. that's what you'll remember about him forever.

I had a friend who took his life the same way.. i never got to say goodbye to him.... and things were left unsaid.... mostly I never got to tell him exactly what a wonderful friend he has been to me for over 15 yrs. I will always miss him...

As a closure to his life and my fond memories of him.. i went to the higest mountain in my area and released some white ballons with his picture and a goodbye message on it.. it was the goodbye i never got to say to him.

I felt better after doing that.. I still miss him.. and that was 5 yrs ago.

good luck, Al

shack

CJ - I am so sorry for your loss. I know how you feel - I have lost two very close friends (including my life-long Best friend) in the past few months to sudden heart attacks. The pain and sense of loss can be staggering. Trust me...it WILL get better as time is a great healer.