Will Polk Audio RTI A1 work with my bookshelf system?

Op133

Hi all!

My first time here. I've been searching for speakers to upgrade the sound of my bookshelf system (http://www.crutchfield.com/p_033DM39S/Denon-D-M39S.html?search=Denon+VENDORID033&searchdisplay=Denon#details-tab)

Budget is $300. I've heard rave things about the RTI A1. But have no idea if it will be compatible with my system specs above. Would I need a separate amp? Any special wiring? (It appears to have four inputs. No idea why.) Will it accept a "naked" wire vs. a banana plug?

I know that sound is very subjective. But I'm a Classical Music guy and looking to improve the soundstage and dynamics of my currently anemic speakers. Could I expect a dramatic improvement? Or are the two (Polk & Denon) even a good match?

Besides the RTI A1's I was also considering Definitive Technology's SM55. Would love to know if anyone has done head-to-head comparisons of these.

Thanks! :razz:

chumlie

I'm sure the RTi's or the SM55's would be an improvement in speakers over what you have currently. But your reciever does NOT have the power to drive them properly and you cannot add an amp to that reciever ( no preouts ). Also, the RTi's are more for home theatre use ( RTi= Referance Theatre improved ). FYI The four inputs are incase you want to biwire or biamp the speaker and can be wired with banana's, spades or bare wire useing only two of the four inputs. Good luck in your quest for better sound.

Op133

chumlie wrote: »

I'm sure the RTi's or the SM55's would be an improvement in speakers over what you have currently. But your reciever does NOT have the power to drive them properly and you cannot add an amp to that reciever ( no preouts ). Also, the RTi's are more for home theatre use ( RTi= Referance Theatre improved ). FYI The four inputs are incase you want to biwire or biamp the speaker and can be wired with banana's, spades or bare wire useing only two of the four inputs. Good luck in your quest for better sound.

Doesn't have the power? But it has a 30 Watt amp inside it. I was told even floor standing vintage speakers could be powered by Watts as low as 6! A guy who's strictly a "vinyl head" and uses tubes to power giant dynaco's told me this.

Since the RTi's are more for home theatre use, are there any music-oriented speakers you might recommend?

cnh

Welcome to Club Polk!

That's actually a nice little system by Denon. But it only has a 70 watt draw from the wall. So yeah, 30 watts x 2 if you're lucky at 8 ohms. And the Rti-A1s require a minimum of 20 watts each, so that's not much wiggle room there!

Many "vintage" speakers are fairly efficient or actually designed for "lower" power. And tube amps are another beast. A tube amp of 8-12 watts a side is NOT comparable to an SS amp of the same power, they can drive GREATER loads.

So yeah, your Denon is an office system that is "not" designed to run more power hungry speakers at higher volumes. It will CLIP.

Want a musical speaker? Up your price and look at the LSis or the newer LSiMs by Polk (bookies).

If you're on a budget check out some LSi-7s but don't run those with that Denon! They are a 4 ohm load and your Denon is only built for 6+ ohms.

What you'll need is a nice integrated amp, maybe a NAD or Cambridge Audio of around 50 watts x 2 or so! And some Lsi-7s or something else!

The Rti-A1s are actually reasonably "musical" as well for what is considered more of a HT speaker (it does double duty fairly well). You might be able to run these on the small Denon, but don't push it because it will blow if you try and pump the A1s too much!

Good Luck!

cnh

chumlie

Sorry. Not much i can recommend with that reciever. cnh had some good suggestions if you care to spend the money.

Op133

Thanks for the input, guys.

At this point I'm thinking maybe a better investment would be a Polk subwoofer instead?
Since I don't have the power for better speakers. But I do have a subwoofer out.

I'm thinking about the Polk Audio PSW10 10-Inch Monitor Series Powered Subwoofer.
Might this work?

chumlie

Indeed it would.

michael1947

Again welcome to the forum and please indicate what receiver/power you are now using along with which speakers are in use. It may offer some assistance for us to know what you have now and what you don't like about it. A subwoofer is usually a nice addition to any bookshelf system so maybe the simple addition on one will suffice for now while you save some coins for the new system.

monepolk

He put a link to it in his original post Michael.

michael1947

I'm sorry for some reason I thought the Marantz package was being considered...yet another "senior moment " for me. Now, if that is in fact what you have then it is time to sell the entire package and start looking for some reasonable good quality stuff. I just spied a Pioneer VSX 819k in the for sale corner here on the forum for $125...and I have one of those, not the most powerful but plenty for RTI-A1's, which I also have. I think I may hook up my A1's to that little Pio and check it out for sound quality.
If you went with a package like this you could it for less than 300, sell your existing rig and use the money for some fine speaker cables and interconnects.:loneranger:

cnh

If you want to keep the Denon system and add a sub for more bottom end in your music. Consider this Polk sub from Polk's ebay store instead of the PSW 10 which is a bit sloppy for music. The PSW 111 is better for what you have in mind and not that much more as a "refurb" which still carries a hefty warranty from POLK!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/PSW-111-8-Home-Powered-Subwoofer-Speaker-Polk-Audio-/360453564359?pt=Speakers_Subwoofers&hash=item53ecb4e7c7

cnh

Op133

michael1947 wrote: »

I'm sorry for some reason I thought the Marantz package was being considered...yet another "senior moment " for me. Now, if that is in fact what you have then it is time to sell the entire package and start looking for some reasonable good quality stuff. I just spied a Pioneer VSX 819k in the for sale corner here on the forum for $125...and I have one of those, not the most powerful but plenty for RTI-A1's, which I also have. I think I may hook up my A1's to that little Pio and check it out for sound quality.
If you went with a package like this you could it for less than 300, sell your existing rig and use the money for some fine speaker cables and interconnects.:loneranger:

I know virtually nothing about audio equipment, which was another reason I went with a complete bookshelf system. :sad: But you're saying I could have a quality set-up for less than 300??? Wow, I had no idea.

But I found out one Denon owner who is using B & W 685 speakers (!!!) with his bookshelf system. Apparently he "bi-wired" by:

running separate speaker cables from the single amplifier outputs to the separate woofer & tweeter binding posts on the B&Ws. No pre-out is needed.

Is this possible?

michael1947

Yes it is as the RTI-A1 has separate high and low inputs, however...Bi-wiring is kind of a "black art." Not many of us here use this feature feeling high quality speaker wire running between the binding posts thus eliminating the brass straps which come from the factory give better or at least as good results...and it keeps the cable costs down as you only need one set of cables instead of 2 which leaves you more money for better cables which will give you better sound...so to speak.:rolleyes:

Bi-amping is another situation where you use all of the binding posts on your speakers and run separate amps from your multi amp unit (avr or multi channel amp) to the single speakers thus beefing up the power to each speaker...and it gets complicated. I have some speakers bi-amped but those little guys you are using do not need it and most of the receivers in your price range will not do it properly.

As I said I will set up my Pioneer and some A1's and give them a spin and show some photos before the day is out. regards

cnh

Agreed. Bi-wiring does not accomplish much. And "real" bi-amping requires TWO separate ampllifiers with their own power supplies, not so-called discrete amplifier modules within one amp (as many like to advertise).

And bi-wiring with a 30 watt Denon is kind of like being a blind optimist. I don't know what the Denon owner with the B&W speakers was thinking but I guess he "fooled" himself quite nicely!

cnh

michael1947

I did set up my little Pioneer 820K with the little RTI A-1's and it sounded just fine. Certainly not at the top of the of the heap for sound quality but a very respectable set-up which I would be pleased to own. The little A-1's would benefit from a LITTLE powered sub to just fill in the lows but even alone I think it's a nice rig. The 820k which is 1 year newer than the 819 is advertised as 110 wpc however somewhere it does indicate 80wpc at full range. To it's credit however the little 820 has most of the needed hook-ups and is I-pod friendly. For my little demonstration (to my dog) I fed the system with an I-pad directly via USB on the front. This would be the lousiest sound quality application. This 820k came with a regular hook-up utilizing both the front panel usb and aux rca and it sounds much better that a way.

I took some photos, ran it up to 93db on the spl meter ant the 820k was at "50" and this was way too loud. I had the RTI's bi-wired mostly because they were the first pair of cables I ran across. You can see what they look like but they are not necessary. That 819k in the fore sale part of the forum is at $125 and the predecessors to the RTI-A1's are on the Polk e-bay site for $150 with free shipping. I checked the specs of both the RTI-4's and the RTI-A1's and they look identical, the 4's look nice and will sound the same. If you can still get the 819 on the forum you would be in @275 + cables + source, other than the included turner. Photos attached, good luck.

tonyb

OP, either of your speaker choices will work for low to moderate volumes with that Denon. As long as you stay with an 8 ohm speaker at a good efficiency rating of 90 or above, you should be fine. Thing is, we always want better, and that Denon is going to limit your speaker choices. Sooner or later your going to have to ditch that Denon to move up a few notches in sound quality.