Speaker Recordings

VR3

In the next few weeks I should have recordings of a few different speakers....

Definitive Tech PM900 - Modified
Definitive Tech CLR2002 - Stock
Polk RT3
Polk RT55 - Dayton Caps/Resistors
JM Lab CC900
Rogers LS7
Definitive Tech CLR1000

I plan on recording any speaker I come across - hopefully to offer comparison listening for those of us who do not have the luxury of a store near by!



Stay tuned!

dkg999

Isn't each speaker going to sound just like the speaker I am listening to the recording on? Will you be offering advicing on tweaking my system by having me hold my phone up in the center of the room while I'm playing music?

VR3

Yes and no... For instance you should be able to discern bright versus warm, etc...

and for instance on my studio monitors at home I actually get a pretty accurate picture of imaging and tone... We recorded the LSi9 and listened through studio monitors right after the recording and I felt it was a solid representation of the sound...

in a world of people using low quality you tube videos to compare products... What is wrong with a studio recording speakers and providing a lossless wav file to listen to?

dkg999

You might be on to something!

tommyt21

VR3 wrote: »

Yes and no... For instance you should be able to discern bright versus warm, etc...

and for instance on my studio monitors at home I actually get a pretty accurate picture of imaging and tone... We recorded the LSi9 and listened through studio monitors right after the recording and I felt it was a solid representation of the sound...

in a world of people using low quality you tube videos to compare products... What is wrong with a studio recording speakers and providing a lossless wav file to listen to?

I think its great. Thanks Trey for taking the time to do it.

Same thing goes for videos of HD TV's you view on youtube or TV. The pic quality is only as good as your monitor your viewing it on, however your still able to get valuable info on the parameters of the picture is in comparison to other TVs done with the same camera. Its not like being there in person, but its at least something.

wayne3burk

what are u using to do the recordings????

I mean as if it really matters.

just saying

newrival

will they all be recorded using the same recording equipment, from the same position, on the same associated stereo equipment, in the same room? If not, this would not be helpful in any way other than to show they make noise. It's a nice sentiment, but I think this would do more harm than good if anyone makes a judgement of the speakers from it.

VR3

They will be recorded with the same equipment on the same gear, same song, same volume... Everything will remain the same in a controlled environment...

I think it will be a great venture!

VR3

All of these recordings are being completed by a local studio in a controlled environment - so what you are hearing is pretty much just the speakers and how they sound.

treitz3

Hey, Trey. You got any songs in mind? I was thinking about this and one came to mind that would make things easy to pick up on with a project such as this. DCD, song #2 Ubiquitous Mr Lovegrove off of the Into the Labyrinth album. It's got a top end that speakers can make or break, a low end that speaks for itself and other aspects that would be......or at least should be discernible off of the recordings of the various speakers. I know that you are very familiar with this selection, I believe it was you who introduced it to me if I'm not mistaken. If this isn't what you had in mind, would you be so kind as to spill the beans on what selection you were thinking of?

BTW, I do know of another pair of speakers you can add to the list. *grins*

Tom

chumlie

Break in time on the new mods before recording ? Just asking, may be important.

VR3

I contemplated the song for a while. I came to the conclusion a complex song like Mr Lovegrove would be TOO complex to capture in a recording to show differences.

When I was modifying my Super Towers the one song that really stood out to me was by Millage Gilbert.

The dynamics of his voice, the body of the snare, the saxophone and the spatial imaging was great representation of the changes.

You can hear it here on a set of LSi9

http://vr3mods.com/Recordings.html

Any modifications will have at minimum 100 hours before being recorded!

treitz3

Ouch! That sounded horrible. I see where you are coming from. It will be interesting to hear if what we hear on our end of the spectrum [online] will pick up what happened with your modded ST's with regards to the body and impact (quickness and sheer weight) of the snare. This is going to be one fun project for many folks, Trey.

Tom

VR3

Horrible?

Gotta be your computer speakers... I have listened to the recording on Studio monitors, Klipsch Pro Media and a PA system and felt it sounded pretty good and really gave a good impression to the LSi9

treitz3

I dunno, Trey. I listen to many things over these speakers, which are just your run of the mill built in computer speakers within my monitor, but that [to me] sounded very bad. Almost like a highly compressed recording. When listening to other recordings on the same speakers, I don't get the same impression. In fact, I ordered all but one of the albums by Barry www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6485-Soundkeeper-Recordings just based upon what I heard over the same speakers.

Tom

treitz3

In fact, just based upon what I heard off of the very same computer speakers.....here is my unprofessional review of the actual CD I had ordered from Barry.

Ok, here goes. My observations of the Americas. First off, I'd like to say that I am not a professional reviewer so please do not expect this to be what you may have come to expect in a review. I'm simply stating the observations I had during the last two full listening sessions. For full disclosure, I have the Americas in CD form and you can check out my profile for my gear used to offer my observations. I have listened to this recording now both at low listening levels [slightly above normal talking levels] and at loud levels [proper reproductive performance levels, as if the musicians were actually performing in my room, unamplified].

I really don't know where to begin, so I'll just begin with the two things that stuck out and immediately impressed me. First thing I noticed was depth perception and information that was not expected. I can't place a measuring tape on an image but I can say that the drums were easily portrayed as being what I would estimate as in between 9' to 14' back from the front plane of the speakers, with all other instruments placed closer to the listener but each with their own specific locational cues.

The second thing that immediately impressed me was during the playback of all of the cymbals. The naturalness, realism, impact, shimmer and natural decay were such a refreshment to listen too compared to a recording made with today's normal recording technology, compression and apparent microphone placement techniques. It was rather easy to locate the various locations of all of the different drums, cymbals and other instruments the drummer was using. From the larger cymbals down to the high hat, the shimmer just kept going and I noticed that unless they just rolled off naturally, the only way they stopped was if the drummer wanted them to stop. Much like one would experience in a live performance and not the all too familiar "tst, tst, tst" found in many of today's recordings.

Last night, I summed this recording up as dynamic, quiet, revealing and refreshing. Now that I have bit more time, I'll clarify a bit more on these. The entire recording can be set at one level and enjoyed throughout the performances. The dynamics are well done and you can still hear all of the information at low volume passages as well as when the passages get a little busy with no sign of congestion, loss or change of sound stage or a blending of the instruments.

When I had mentioned that it was quiet, I wasn't kidding. Now, granted, it's been hot in the Carolinas the past two days and my A/C was running during both listening sessions. Please keep this in mind when I say this. In between the songs, you normally hear a tape hiss when the music begins or ends. I did not hear anything of this nature with the exception of maybe once at the end of a song. For example, the introduction into song #8 [which begins with the piano] had absolutely no detectable hiss or noise whatsoever. It just lead from straight silence into music being played from the piano.

There are many aspects of this recording that are revealing. The bass, though un-amplified, was full and consistent throughout the frequency spectrum and Barry had mentioned this earlier on in the thread...

bdiament wrote:

I wanted to get the sound of the wood and the sound of Paul's fingers "pulling" the strings.

...well, he achieved it. I was also clearly able to tell when the strings were pulled hard enough to make a particular sound that isn't quite musical [to me] but may well have been intended by the artists. Who am I to say? I'm not a musician. The point is that I could easily pick up on the crystal clear reproduction of this sound and quite honestly, it sounded more like a real instrument because you could pick out things like this. Another thing that was a pleasant surprise was the reproductive end result of the drummer hitting the rim of the tom drum [or similar type drum]. It was as if you could hear the impact of the rim along with the associated sounds the drum makes after the initial strike of the rim.

Basically, this recording is one of those recordings made me very proud of the performance my rig *can* have. Yes, I do have other recordings that are around the same level of recording as this album but admittedly, they are far and few between when collectively looking at my music library. One thing that I thought of while listening last night was that the recording quality reminded me of my XRCD of "Jazz at the Pawnshop". I thought the same thing today as I was listening and instead of relying on aural memory, I decided to go get it and play it immediately after my second session with this recording. It appears that my aural memory is still spot on because if you lose the crowd, waitresses, clanging glasses and all of the other activity, the recording quality is eerily similar. Very refreshing, to say the least.

Alright, enough of my observations. On to my preferences. I really dig song 5 and 8. Song 5 reminds me of something that you would hear in a comedy type movie as this is playing along to the scenes, adding to the moment of the movie. Song 8, I just really like that song. Part of what I like most about it [besides the music itself] is that beautiful piano. Again, this is just a preference but in this song [along with the rest of the album] the piano is as an actual instrument taking up physical space on the sound stage, along with the other instruments and not like it was an effect or an added instrument added in or recorded inside the instrument.

Tom

Face

VR3 wrote: »

Horrible?

Gotta be your computer speakers...

+1...

VR3

Well you have to remember this is a recording of a speaker playing a recording... Lol so it will not sound like the musician is in the room because he is not in the room... Lol

but I am here to tell ya.. We listened to that recording right after the LSi9 played the song and it was definitely a good representation

tommyt21

Sounded Great on my Mac speakers!

treitz3

VR3 wrote: »

Well you have to remember this is a recording of a speaker playing a recording... Lol so it will not sound like the musician is in the room because he is not in the room...

Jebus, even at lower volumes, the top end sounded rather distorted. Perhaps my listening preferences have evolved to quickly pinpoint aspects of reproduction that I do not like but I'll stick by my statement. That sounded horrible. I'll be seeing you soon enough, Trey. I'll just pick up a CD of that recording from you or figure out how to rip one online of that recording to play in my rig.

Anyways, I'm distracting the point of this thread. That was not my intention and for that, please accept my apologies.

Tom

VR3

I believe you are talking about the cymbals? If so, that's another reason I picked this recording, that was an aspect the mods really brought out...

:-D

treitz3

VR3 wrote: »

I believe you are talking about the cymbals? If so, that's another reason I picked this recording, that was an aspect the mods really brought out...

Yes, Sir! Well, there is more [shuts up for right now] but within I believe the first 15-20 seconds or so of the song playing, my ears wanted to curl up and my body cringed. If, after the mods are done and they are broken in, the recording of the speaker can pick this up? Then my hat is off to you on the song choice because folks have GOT to hear a change with that, if nothing else.

Tom

michael1947

Very interesting project. Thank you for all the time you put into the project and these recordings will become an invaluable asset in our "cyber vault" at cp.

decal

Sorry but, I fail to see how one can tell how a speaker sounds by recording it and listening to it on another speaker. To each his own I suppose. I wish you luck in your endeavor.

VR3

No one is saying this is a replacement for auditioning anything.

If you have reasonably flat response speakers for your computer you will be able to depict differences as it will be the same song, same volume, same everything - so if one speaker is doing something better than the other you will hear it or vice versa..

But obviously you will not be hearing what the actual speaker sounds like without actually hearing them...

But I know ALOT of people these days base designs off of online research such as You Tube videos and recordings since a lot of Brick and mortar businesses are going to the wayside...

audiocr381ve

Eta?

VR3

The above speakers + the modded LSi9 mod will all be done at one time so approx. 2 weeks!

These will also be posted on youtube!

http://vr3mods.com/You_Tube.html

newrival

You're just recording one speaker, correct? Not in stereo, that is.

VR3

All stereo pairs are recorded in stereo

newrival

VR3 wrote: »

All stereo pairs are recorded in stereo

May I ask why?

I think this will cause more issues than anything. Unless you are utilizing one of those inner-ear type mics within one of those heads , I don't see why that would be helpful at all. If you only used one speaker, you could account for directivity, distances and mitigate reflection, phase, and various other interactions or distortions. IMHO, to make these useful, only one speaker should be used. I see absolutely no value in using a stereo pair.

zingo

The best example of this is the Smyth Realizer. You can record the sonic signature of a audio system, then play it back through your headphones to recreate the experience including the room/environment. Recording the "sound" of speakers can be done, but it is hard to do well. Good luck Trey!