Keep towers at full range??
Hey guys, got a question. I've got the amp in my sig hooked to my 12s. I'm looking at completing my setup soon with a new sub but got curious. Since I've got the 12s on external amplification, that means I can keep them at full range and also have the sub to hit what the towers can't right? Give it some extra bass except for the lowest stuff that only a sub can hit. Is this a good idea??? Pros or Cons?? Set the subs crossover to about 80 or so and leave the one in the AVR alone?
The reason I ask is that before the amp I knew I could help the towers out on power if I set the crossover in the AVR to about 80 and it would help the AVR power the towers but now since that isn't a concern this sounded like a good idea to get some extra bass for music and movies.
The reason I ask is that before the amp I knew I could help the towers out on power if I set the crossover in the AVR to about 80 and it would help the AVR power the towers but now since that isn't a concern this sounded like a good idea to get some extra bass for music and movies.
AVR - Onkyo NR809
500gb HD for MP3 and FLAC files
Amp - Parasound 2250 - FOR SALE BTW!! PM me if interested!
Mains - Polk RTi12 towers
Center - CSi5
Surround - FXiA6's
Sub - psw505
Movies and games - PS3
TV - Toshiba 52" HD
Every vehicle has one good nuetral drop in it
500gb HD for MP3 and FLAC files
Amp - Parasound 2250 - FOR SALE BTW!! PM me if interested!
Mains - Polk RTi12 towers
Center - CSi5
Surround - FXiA6's
Sub - psw505
Movies and games - PS3
TV - Toshiba 52" HD
Every vehicle has one good nuetral drop in it
Post edited by snake1 on
Comments
-
Hey guys, got a question. I've got the amp in my sig hooked to my 12s. I'm looking at completing my setup soon with a new sub but got curious. Since I've got the 12s on external amplification, that means I can keep them at full range and also have the sub to hit what the towers can't right? Give it some extra bass except for the lowest stuff that only a sub can hit. Is this a good idea??? Pros or Cons?? Set the subs crossover to about 80 or so and leave the one in the AVR alone?
I run my LSi 15's full and my PSW125 is crossed at 80 right now in the AVR (lowest it can go)."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
not sure if your AVR can do this, but here is my settings on mine and I can switch between with 1 button. Like you, power isn't my issue neither.
2 channel music = full range, but sub gets -60hz. this setting is for both Lsi9s and Rti12s.
movie = full range, but sub only get LFE signal. -
IMO its a personal preference. I have a amp to power my a5's. I keep reading about issues with double bass, and peaks and lows, by running full range plus sub(s). I have played with the crossovers and tried different settings, but I always end up liking it better on full range.
I have a hybrid setup with a almost dedicated 2 channel together with a HT setup. For LP, CD, and MP3 listening I use my Carver preamp with my carver amp. That powers my a5's along with two pioneer 8" subs. When I watch movies it goes from my AVR to my Carver preamp, to my Carver amp. That setup runs my a5's two pioneer subs, a6, surrounds and my dsw600 sub. Adding the two 8" subs in the front and then the sub crawl for my dsw600 really improved my low end .
On paper it sounds like a mess but it actually sounds very good. I have gotten a few compliments on it.HT Rig Samsung 64F8500 |Pioneer Elite BDP-52FD|Pioneer Elite VSX-32| Two Carver TFM-15cb Bridged for mains|Polk Audio RTiA5 Cherry|Polk Audio CsiA6 Cherry|Polk Audio T-15 Heights|Polk Audio FXia6 Surround|DIY 8cuft Dayton Ultimax 15" powered with a Crown XLS1000
2Channel Rig Polk Audio LSi9 Cherry| Carver C-1BillD Mod|Carver M1.0t MkII Opt2|Pro-ject RM 1.3|SpeedBox S|AQ King Cobras|AQ Rocket88|
ISF Level 2 Certified Calibrator -
Just a minute here guys....two words "Cascading crossovers" If you are running you speakers at full range and setting your sub setting in your amp @80hz. How are you running you speakers at full range? 2. If you are going full range on speakers how are you running signal to sub? So if you're running LFE to sub and using your receiver to send anything below 80hz. then your sub crossover should be turned all the way up to keep from "cascading crossovers" that can cause problems.....
-
Just a minute here guys....two words "Cascading crossovers" If you are running you speakers at full range and setting your sub setting in your amp @80hz. How are you running you speakers at full range? 2. If you are going full range on speakers how are you running signal to sub? So if you're running LFE to sub and using your receiver to send anything below 80hz. then your sub crossover should be turned all the way up to keep from "cascading crossovers" that can cause problems.....
Depends, On my pioneers they are run via line level from my preamps "main two" output. I then set the LPF on the subs to where they blend best with the towers. My dswpro is a LFE only sub during movies.HT Rig Samsung 64F8500 |Pioneer Elite BDP-52FD|Pioneer Elite VSX-32| Two Carver TFM-15cb Bridged for mains|Polk Audio RTiA5 Cherry|Polk Audio CsiA6 Cherry|Polk Audio T-15 Heights|Polk Audio FXia6 Surround|DIY 8cuft Dayton Ultimax 15" powered with a Crown XLS1000
2Channel Rig Polk Audio LSi9 Cherry| Carver C-1BillD Mod|Carver M1.0t MkII Opt2|Pro-ject RM 1.3|SpeedBox S|AQ King Cobras|AQ Rocket88|
ISF Level 2 Certified Calibrator -
I think there is a setting in my AVR that'll allow the mains to be run full with a sub and just set the XO on the sub to the desired level... Right?AVR - Onkyo NR809
500gb HD for MP3 and FLAC files
Amp - Parasound 2250 - FOR SALE BTW!! PM me if interested!
Mains - Polk RTi12 towers
Center - CSi5
Surround - FXiA6's
Sub - psw505
Movies and games - PS3
TV - Toshiba 52" HD
Every vehicle has one good nuetral drop in it -
Just a minute here guys....two words "Cascading crossovers" If you are running you speakers at full range and setting your sub setting in your amp @80hz. How are you running you speakers at full range? 2. If you are going full range on speakers how are you running signal to sub? So if you're running LFE to sub and using your receiver to send anything below 80hz. then your sub crossover should be turned all the way up to keep from "cascading crossovers" that can cause problems.....
Im my Integra its called "Double Bass". It sends the bass to the fronts as full range and the sub using the crossovers set in the AVR."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
It's pretty much an experiment with your system & see (hear) what sounds best to you. Keep in mind the term "Fullrange" is very misleading. Very few speakers are actually fullrange. You're asking your speakers to do something they simply can't do...produce proper bass when run all out. Now this does not mean they won't sound great, couldn't be farther from the truth. When you take the load off the speakers & let the sub/subs do what they do best you're in for a real shock at how well they now sound. Of course it has to be done right to experience the benefit. My LSi15's were great speakers, but they really came to life once I blended them in with my dual Velo's. My current KEF Q900's are also sounding superb running with the Velo's. Play around & figure out what works for you. When done right there's no going back. Floorstanders & subs rule!!!"2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
-
I think there is a setting in my AVR that'll allow the mains to be run full with a sub and just set the XO on the sub to the desired level... Right?
I would set the mains to full ragne. Then set low pass filter setting in your onkyo to 120hz. Use the LFE on your sub input to bypass its low pass filter. With it set like this the towers will be at full range and the only time your sub will play is when it gets a signal from the .1 LFE track. If there is a lower sound in the L or R channel your towers will play that. Then say your listening to the radio with your avr set to stereo litening mode your will get nothing out of the sub because it is a 2.0 channel source.
If this isnt enough bass then you can go to the option of Double Bass in your avr and turn that on. This will feed both bass signals to the towers and sub. That way if your listening to a 2.0 channle source you still get to use the sub.
The 120hz setting for the sub will take nothing away from the towers. It is simply a low pass filter, not a xo. The LFE sound track is dedicated for audio from 120hz down. So if you set it to 80hz then you wont hear anything above that because it doesnt get rerouted to your towers.
Now on the other hand the setting for your L&R is a XO so the lower you set it to the less your going to hear out of the sub but only for audio that is in the L&R channels. If there is a .1 LFE your sub will still be active. If it is just a 2.0 with no .1 LFE the lower your towers are set the less your sub will work. If you go with full range then your sub will be off when the audio has no .1 LFE track.AVR: Onkyo Tx-NR808
Amplifier: Carver A-753x 250 watts x 3
Fronts: Polk RTI A7 (modded by Trey VR3)
Center: CSI A4 (modded by Trey VR3)
Rear: FXI A4
Sub: Polk DSW Pro 660wi
TV: LG Infinia 50PX950 3D
Speaker Cable: AudioQuest Type 8
IC: AudioQuest Black Mamba II -
In your Integra, if you're talking about the LPF OF LFE control, that does not send ANYTHING to your subwoofer but the LFE channel of digital soundtracks and should be set to 120Hz. Setting it to 80Hz throws away information in the LFE channel from 80-120Hz. It has absolutely zero effect on redirected bass from the other channels and that filter takes place before the LFE channel is summed with the bass management (the crossovers for the individual channels) for output to your subwoofer. That is a common misconception, and Audyssey has pushed for them to eliminate that control altogether as it only exists to maintain compatibility with older THX-spec'd subwoofers that were specifically designed to have no appreciable output above 80Hz. The LFE channel itself is brickwall filtered at 120Hz by its very nature, so any setting other than 120Hz for LPF OF LFE is incorrect.EndersShadow wrote: »Im my Integra its called "Double Bass". It sends the bass to the fronts as full range and the sub using the crossovers set in the AVR.
So I'm clear: If you set mains to FULL RANGE and LPF OF LFE to 80Hz, this does NOT filter ANY of the bass from the mains when using Double Bass.Equipment list:
Onkyo TX-NR3010 9.2 AVR
Emotiva XPA-3 amp
Polk RTi70 mains, CSi40 center, RTi38 surrounds, RTi28 rears and heights
SVS 20-39CS+ subwoofer powered by Crown XLS1500
Oppo BDP-93 Blu-ray player
DarbeeVision DVP5000 video processor
Epson 8500UB 1080p projector
Elite Screens Sable 120" CineWhite screen -
in my Denon, the sub and main/front settings aren't mutually exclusive. I can set each to be anything I want.
If Sub = "LFE", then there is no crossover setting displays. But when Sub = "LFE+MAIN", below it there is a XO setting.
But for sure, you need to keep MAIN as "large" or "full range" to get all the signal. Then play around with the SUB setting.
This is really depending your AVR. I suggest you to read the manual, my AVR has a 80pages manual
took me two weekend playing around to really understand every settings. -
kuntasensei wrote: »In your Integra, if you're talking about the LPF OF LFE control, that does not send ANYTHING to your subwoofer but the LFE channel of digital soundtracks and should be set to 120Hz. Setting it to 80Hz throws away information in the LFE channel from 80-120Hz. It has absolutely zero effect on redirected bass from the other channels and that filter takes place before the LFE channel is summed with the bass management (the crossovers for the individual channels) for output to your subwoofer. That is a common misconception, and Audyssey has pushed for them to eliminate that control altogether as it only exists to maintain compatibility with older THX-spec'd subwoofers that were specifically designed to have no appreciable output above 80Hz. The LFE channel itself is brickwall filtered at 120Hz by its very nature, so any setting other than 120Hz for LPF OF LFE is incorrect.
So I'm clear: If you set mains to FULL RANGE and LPF OF LFE to 80Hz, this does NOT filter ANY of the bass from the mains when using Double Bass.
Gotcha, good to know. Thats what I want anyway, the LSi's normally do enough on their own for me (hence trying to sell my sub)."....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
