Just got my RTIA9's +, now going crazy deciding power for my setup!

Sportsfan555
Sportsfan555 Posts: 3
edited December 2012 in Electronics
Hello all, I'm new here. I'm no audio expert and over the past few months been trying to educate myself by reading boards like these, reviews, and hitting a few local small audio specialty stores. I'm coming from an over 10 year old onkyo HTIAB so I really wanted to step it up since I moved in a bigger space. I recently had delivered all Polk:

2 Rtia9's (front)
1 Csia6 (center)
4 Fxia6's (sides, rears)
1 DSWPRO660 (sub)

Room size is 25X13, 75%movies/25%music, and now i'm trying to figure out the best way to power these. Budget is tricky because even though I could go up to 3K, but I'd much rather save $ if the difference is only a little better. Also not looking for used equiptment.

From what I have been reading on many audio message boards and reviews, it seems like most people are powering a setup similar to mine with a good AVR (115-140 per channel) and adding a seperate external amp like an Emo XPA-3 to power the fronts while taking a load off the reciever to power the rest of the speakers. This was the setup i was willing to buy until I went into a local small audio store and the guy threw me a curveball. He told me I was starting backwards and that you don't buy an AVR knowing your going to buy an amp for it. He said you either just buy a really great AVR and add nothing, or buy a seperate Pre/Pro and Amp. Is this salesman just saying this because he wants me to spend more? If I go pre/pro and amp seperates will the sound be night and day compared to a receiver with external amp combo? Here are package options I came up with so far because i want a system with at least two HDMI outs/3D, and 4K for the future

1. Marantz AVR- SR7007 7.2, 125wpc (no Audyssey32) alone- cost -1799
2. Denon AVR- 4311C1 9.2, 140wpc (with Audyssey32) plus Emo AMP XPA-3 200wpc-2198
3. Onkyo AVR- TX-NR818- 7.2, 135wpc (with Audyssey32) plus Emo AMP XPA-3- 1798
4. Marantz PRE/PRO- AV7701- 7.2ch (no Audyssey32) plus Marantz AMP- MM7055- 5ch, 140wpc(still need 2ch)-2898
5. Marantz PRE/PRO- AV7701- 7.2ch (no Audyssey32) plus Emo AMPs XPA-2, 300wpc and Emo XPA-5 200wpc-3147

I'm always looking for the best bang for the buck, and only looking to spend more only if it really would make a huge difference for my setup/speakers. Any help is really appreciated since I really want to start enjoying my speakers asap! Thanks for reading
Post edited by Sportsfan555 on
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Comments

  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited December 2012
    Pioneer SC series AVR with a 2 channel Parasound amp for the A9's
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  • zane77
    zane77 Posts: 1,696
    edited December 2012
    I have a seperate Pre-Pro, but i used an Onkyo like you are looking at with an Emo XPA-2 for my fronts initially. Chumlie's idea would work to but i think the best bang for the home theater buck would be the Onkyo-Emo setup you are looking at.
    Home Theater
    Onkyo PR-SC5508 Sharp LC-70LE847U
    Emotiva XPA-5 Emotiva XPA-2 Emotiva UPA-2
    Front RTi-A9 Wide RTi-A7 Center CSi-A6 Surround FXi-A6 Rear RTi-A3 Sub 2x PSW505
    Sony BDP-S790 Dishnetwork Hopper/Joey Logitech Harmony One Apple TV
    Two Channel
    Oppo 105D BAT VK-500 w/BatPack SDA SRS 2.3 Dreadnought Squeezebox Touch Apple TV
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  • pdxfj
    pdxfj Posts: 376
    edited December 2012
    I'm using an Onkyo 808 as a pre/pro that powers my surrounds (7ch) and a Sony ES amp to power the front three speakers.

    There is some truth to powering everything off the AVR. To do this you need the correct AVR. If we use Onkyo as an example, you'll want to look at the 3009, 3010, 5009, 5010. Each of those have the 4k upscaling, plenty of HDMI inputs and Audyssey XT32 with SubEQ so you can EQ two independent subs. Keep in mind the 818 does have XT32, but no SubEQ so it can only EQ a single sub.

    The 30xx and 50xx have four power supplies, so there enough juice available to power the internal amps. The person I bought my ES amp from was simplifying his setup and went back to powering everything off his 5008. He said it sounded good with plenty of headroom but he missed the sound of the external amp.

    If you wanted to stick with Onkyo plus an external amp and have XT32 w/SubEQ you'll need to get the 1010. I'm not sure who else has an AVR with XT32 and SubEQ. Pioneer has their line of AVRs with the ICE amps which people say sound very, very good.

    Hope this helps.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,987
    edited December 2012
    IMHO this want in your wallet.

    If you hafta have new, Onk-Emo (either) -2 or -3 should work well. Consider used 2/3 channel for LCR. You can get a more robust amp for the same or less $: Rotel, Parasound, B & K, to name a few. Look up snake1's thread on a Para 2250 driving a pair of (very similar) RTi12 - he's real happy w/ SQ

    My $.02

    Merry Christmas, tony
    Samsung 60" UN60ES6100 LED Outlaw Audio 976 Pre/Pro Samsung BDP, Amazon Firestick, Phillips CD Changer Canare 14 ga - LCR tweeters inside*; Ctr Ch outside BJC 10 ga - LCR mids, inside* & out 8 ga Powerline: LR woofers, inside* & out *soldered LR: Tri-amped RTi A7 w/Rotels. Woofers - 980BX; Tweets & “Plugged*” Mids - 981, connected w/MP Premiere ICs Ctr Ch: Rotel RB981 -> Bi-amped CSi A6 Surrounds: Premiere ICs ->Rotel 981 -> AR 12 ga -> RTi A3. 5 Subs: Sunfire True SW Signature -> LFE & Ctr Ch; 4 Audio Pro Evidence @ the “Corners”. Power Conditioning & Distribution: 4 dedicated 20A feeds; APC H15; 5 Furman Miniport 20s *Xschop's handy work
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  • Sherardp
    Sherardp Posts: 8,038
    edited December 2012
    +1 with the Pioneer SC series receiver. The IceAmps are well worth it and sound really good.
    Shoot the jumper.....................BALLIN.............!!!!!

    Home Theater Pics in the Showcase :cool:

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showcase/view.php?userid=73580
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  • pearsall001
    pearsall001 Posts: 5,068
    edited December 2012
    Keep in mind your plans for down the road. For example are you going to stick with a 7.1 system or will you be expanding to a 9.1/11.1 system? Your room size clearly screams for a big setup!. I came from being an NAD AVR addict but I wanted more for my room (14x32) & NAD only does up to a 7.1 system so I had to look at other options. I looked at all the usual suspects...Pioneer, Onkyo, Marantz, Denon, Cambridge, Arcam, Anthem, and Yamaha. I really liked the Yammie compared to the others & I have to say it's 11.2 performance is staggering. I would suggest to purchase an AVR that meets your needs & add a good 5/7 channel amp. For your situation being 75% movies that will fit the bill nicely. Don't be afraid to add another sub while you're at it.
    "2 Channel & 11.2 HT "Two Channel:Magnepan LRSSchiit Audio Freya S - SS preConsonance Ref 50 - Tube preParasound HALO A21+ 2 channel ampBluesound NODE 2i streameriFi NEO iDSD DAC Oppo BDP-93KEF KC62 sub Home Theater:Full blown 11.2 set up.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,569
    edited December 2012
    chumlie wrote: »
    Pioneer SC series AVR with a 2 channel Parasound amp for the A9's

    This.

    Hell, with the A9's crossed over at 80Hz and the Elite SC, you won't need an amp, especially not an emo.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • cfrizz
    cfrizz Posts: 13,415
    edited December 2012
    Welcome to Club Polk!

    I firmly believe in amping all speakers and be done with that upgrade, you can use the amp through all other upgrades to your system. There is nothing wrong with a receiver/amp combo, although I personally prefer seperates.

    So get whichever receiver has all the bells and whistles that you want it to have and get a 7 channel amp. You can get more bang for your buck if you are willing to get used gear from www.audiogon.com. But an Emotiva XPA or an Outlaw 7200 amp are very good bang for the buck brand new amps that will do a fine job of powering all your speakers.

    Yes you will spend more money up front, but this gear is made to last for years, so get gear that you will be happy with. Do it once, do it right, then sit back and enjoy.
    Marantz AV-7705 PrePro, Classé 5 channel 200wpc Amp, Oppo 103 BluRay, Rotel RCD-1072 CDP, Sony XBR-49X800E TV, Polk S60 Main Speakers, Polk ES30 Center Channel, Polk S15 Surround Speakers SVS SB12-NSD x2
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  • Geoff4rfc
    Geoff4rfc Posts: 2,409
    edited December 2012
    Onkyo 818 and the emo XPR-5
    Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2

    Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)

    EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
    When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman
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  • jumpindick
    jumpindick Posts: 428
    edited December 2012
    +1....
    chumlie wrote: »
    Pioneer SC series AVR with a 2 channel Parasound amp for the A9's
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  • jumpindick
    jumpindick Posts: 428
    edited December 2012
    I have same speaker set up. I am using marantz SR6006, but also have got Parasound Halo A21 connected to RTis and they sound beautiful.
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,259
    edited December 2012
    Pioneer SC series....



    Echo...
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  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 5,056
    edited December 2012
    cfrizz wrote: »
    Welcome to Club Polk!

    I firmly believe in amping all speakers and be done with that upgrade, you can use the amp through all other upgrades to your system. There is nothing wrong with a receiver/amp combo, although I personally prefer seperates.

    So get whichever receiver has all the bells and whistles that you want it to have and get a 7 channel amp. You can get more bang for your buck if you are willing to get used gear from www.audiogon.com. But an Emotiva XPA or an Outlaw 7200 amp are very good bang for the buck brand new amps that will do a fine job of powering all your speakers.

    Yes you will spend more money up front, but this gear is made to last for years, so get gear that you will be happy with. Do it once, do it right, then sit back and enjoy.
    I have to agree with amping all your channels. I ran a 3-channel Parasound for years and your can hear the sonic difference, although not "huge" difference, between the amp channels and AVR channels. My next amp will be a 5 or 7 channel EMO, older Parasound, or Rotel.
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,289
    edited December 2012
    x100
    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    Pioneer SC series....
    Echo...

    http://www.amazon.com/Pioneer-SC-65-Channel-Select-Receiver/dp/B00852X534/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1355527879&sr=8-1&keywords=pioneer+sc-65

    Build off of this it will run your system and then take your time finding yourself a good used amp as mentioned above as you feel needed
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • Sportsfan555
    Sportsfan555 Posts: 3
    edited December 2012
    I appreciate all of the responces and I've been examining all of them with a lot of thought. So much thought I still have not made a decision and I'm dying to unbox these speakers and set them up with something so I can finally enjoy them. Seems from the options I layed out:

    6 people recommend a Pioneer SC series AVR with an AMP
    2 people recommend Onkyo 818 or slightly bettter with an AMP
    2 people are flexable saying either setup would be fine
    jumpindick says Marantz 6006 with amp works great
    cfrizz says seperates are best but nothing wrong with AVR + amping all speakers

    Seems like the Pioneer SC Series is the leading option. Since my room is big at 25X13, I'm thinking the SC-68 with its 140 wpc but let me throw in another question at you guys.

    What about the new Denon 4520ci? If I get the Denon, i would hope i would be getting similar power at 150 wpc, but I would be adding the very popular Audyssey X32. What do you guys think? Since i currently have a 7.1 setup and both recievers are 9.2 I can bi-amp the fronts only temporarily until I find a nice amp to add. What do you think about the Denon 4520 over the SC-68?
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  • B Run
    B Run Posts: 1,888
    edited December 2012
    I'm adding another vote for the SC, i prefer it over the Denon but i'd try to see if you can audition both and let your ears decide. If you go with the SC it can handle your towers just fine until you find the amp you want, if you still feel it's necessary to add one.
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  • Sportsfan555
    Sportsfan555 Posts: 3
    edited December 2012
    B Run wrote: »
    I'm adding another vote for the SC, i prefer it over the Denon but i'd try to see if you can audition both and let your ears decide. If you go with the SC it can handle your towers just fine until you find the amp you want, if you still feel it's necessary to add one.


    Seems like I'm down to two choices now, the Pioneer SC-68 or the Denon 4520ci. Yourself and many others on this post favor the Pioneer SC-68 a lot. Reading this, and other threads all over the interent it seems that as popular and favored the SC-68 is with its power, and cool running ICE Amps, the Audyssey X32 is just as popular and favored which can be had on the powerful Denon 4520ci.

    Is the popular Audyssey X32 worth giving up for the SC-68? Could the power be just as good on the Denon 4520ci so it wouldn't be worth giving up the Audyssey X32? How big of an advantage is the THX certification on the SC-68? I don't think i would use the new USB DAC feature on the Pioneer since i don't have a laptop or computer nearby. With Auditioning, I had to travel really far just to find a place with the Rtia9's on display to listen to and if i went back there it would be hard to test the Audyssey X32 because my room setup will be different from the store. I wanna finally pull the trigger and buy one, but I'm wondering what the other memebers think about the SC-68 vs the Denon 4520 with my setup. Thanks for your responce
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,569
    edited December 2012
    IMO, both Audyssey or MCACC should only be used to establish a base line with fine tuning done by ear. Therefore, the importance of one over the other is a non-factor.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • chumlie
    chumlie Posts: 8,658
    edited December 2012
    Why not go with a Pioneer SC-55 and put the extra dough in an amp if you feel the need.
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  • xftman
    xftman Posts: 153
    edited December 2012
    Why not getting a Onkyo 809 from Amazon on sale for $449.50 now. the 809 has all features you're looking for and save extra $1k to put on Amp. Features will be outdated in couple years but not amp.
    MAIN:
    Front- LsiM 707 (MIT Terminator 2 Bi-Wire),
    Center- lsiM 706,
    Surrounds- lsi F/X,
    Power sub PSW1000,
    Receiver- Harman Kardon Avr 3700,
    Amp - Emo XPR-5.

    Secondary (2.1):
    LsiM 703,
    HK Avr 3700,
    Yaqin MS-30L,
    Polk DSW-PRO 400.
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  • KYFHO
    KYFHO Posts: 76
    edited December 2012
    F1nut wrote: »
    IMO, both Audyssey or MCACC should only be used to establish a base line with fine tuning done by ear. Therefore, the importance of one over the other is a non-factor.

    Hit the nail on the head!!!!
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