Good Two Channel Speakers?

cmy330go

audionuts373 wrote: »

...Cerwin Vegas get mostly high reviews from people that have purchased them...

Look what else get's glowing reviews from the people that own them.

Bose Wave Radio

Sorry, but consumer reviews are pretty much worthless.

audionuts373

cmy330go wrote: »

Look what else get's glowing reviews from the people that own them.

Bose Wave Radio

Sorry, but consumer reviews are pretty much worthless.

Yeah, but those Bose reviews are usually written by old farts like me! :-)

tonyb

audionuts373 wrote: »

People here can say what they want but the Cerwin Vegas get mostly high reviews from people that have purchased them. Could the bad things that some on the forums say be audio snobbery?
QUOTE]

Cerwin Vegas are the type of speaker you listened to in high school. They play loud, which is important to the younger crowd. The quality of that sound however isn't. If loud is your only criteria, then yeah, great reviews.

Did you really expect thunderous bass from the TSI 300's ? Either of your amps don't have the current to push big floorstanders with multiple drivers to their peak performance, and too small of bookies won't have the low bass you need. So either get a decent subwoofer, or bigger speakers and more power. Which way you go depends on your wallet and needs.

cmy330go

Agreed. Cerwin Vegas are fine if you're looking for a party speaker that can take a bunch of abuse. They're honestly damn near a PA speaker with wood veneer.

What I find most frustrating about this thread/subject is that I feel people's expectations are WAY out of whack. Most everyone is used to hearing sound systems, whether it be in a theater, car, or even some stores, that are so ridiculously bass heavy, that they assume it's the way the music is supposed to sound. Then when they finally decide, for whatever reason, to get some decent gear, they're disappointed because it doesn't boom like they're used to hearing.

Honestly, in any small to mid-sized room, a properly setup pair of quality bookshelf speakers should be able to reproduce satisfactory low-end. I've honestly spent many MANY hours listening to a pair of Polk Rt25i in my 2ch rig. Do they have a shallower low-end than the B&W 802 S3 that I'm using now? You bet. But I would say they did 85 to 90% of what the bigger B&Ws do, and never did I sit there thinking there just isn't enough bass.

I just truly think that many people need to train their ear to what is accurate, and learn to appreciate how the music they love was supposed to sound. Granted...there is some music that is horribly recorded, and is virtually un-listenable without some form of tone adjustment or equalization. But that is by-far not the norm.

audionuts373

tonyb wrote: »

audionuts373 wrote: »

People here can say what they want but the Cerwin Vegas get mostly high reviews from people that have purchased them. Could the bad things that some on the forums say be audio snobbery?
QUOTE]

Cerwin Vegas are the type of speaker you listened to in high school. They play loud, which is important to the younger crowd. The quality of that sound however isn't. If loud is your only criteria, then yeah, great reviews.

Did you really expect thunderous bass from the TSI 300's ? Either of your amps don't have the current to push big floorstanders with multiple drivers to their peak performance, and too small of bookies won't have the low bass you need. So either get a decent subwoofer, or bigger speakers and more power. Which way you go depends on your wallet and needs.

I'm curious. Do you own or have you heard any of the latest crop of Cerwin Vegas? If you heard a pair and did not like them is it possible the room acoustics were bad or the amp driving them might have been a less than stellar amp? Just curious.

And the answer to your question as to what kind of bass I expected. No, I didn't expect thunderous bass from the LSI300's. I was quite aware of the fact that a 2-way tower speaker with two 5.25 inch woofers was not going to have exceptional bass. I had to make a choice and buy them online without hearing them because there is no audio store close to where I live. I made a mistake in buying them and it's too late to send them back for a refund so now I'm trying to get advice from others so that I don't repeat that mistake.

As far as my amps go, unless you are familiar with NAD amps, don't sell them short on what they can power just by the published specs.

tonyb

I am familiar with Nad amps my friend....and CV speakers as many here are. Your question of "good 2 channel speakers" is going to be subjective. Obviously you like the CV speakers so just buy them then and be happy, no big deal. However if you want to move on beyond CV, then take some advice from others who have been down that road. There's a gazillion speakers out there for 2 channel beyond the CV's, get your ears on some and then make your decision. If you want to keep buying blind then you'll have to eat some coin with the reselling process. Buying blind and used, you can probably flip what you don't like for little or no loss of coin.

naturallight

Audionuts, I have the same problem you do, in respect of having no audio stores even remotely close. The only thing is a best buy, which i have not even gone into. If you do have a best buy close, you may just want to walk in there and see if they have anything at all.



The Cerwin Vega's, where pretty much know to be party speakers. They will get loud and give you plenty of bass.

There new XLS line, i'm sure will give you plenty of bass. How "accurate" they are, or "musical" I have no Idea. I've never heard these speakers. My guess would be you would like the XLS- 12. (at least for bass)A pretty much stock 3 way speaker.



Your NAD amp is very nice, and it is underrated on it's 40 watts. It will probably push the XLS -12's with no problem. CV's are very efficient speakers.



If you go with a large floor standing tower, such as the Polk Rti7, or 9s/12's or the LSi15's. Power wise, your about min100 watts short of what you need to run these. I'm not trying to bust your stones here, just the opposite. Just trying to be honest with you. If you buy any of these speakers and try and run them with the NAD, your just going to unhappy with the sound and probably damage the speakers.



Now I have a set of RTi12's, I have a large power amp to run them. This power amp happens to have large meters on the front. Now how "accurate" they are i don't know. But i will tell you, if i turn up the volume at all (which i would not say is really loud) The needles will sit at 50 watts and jump why up from that. These type of large floor standing towers, just need a large "High Current" amp to push them. It's just not Polk, it's pretty much anybodies Large towers.

Just the way things are now.

audionuts373

naturallight wrote: »

Audionuts, I have the same problem you do, in respect of having no audio stores even remotely close. The only thing is a best buy, which i have not even gone into. If you do have a best buy close, you may just want to walk in there and see if they have anything at all.



The Cerwin Vega's, where pretty much know to be party speakers. They will get loud and give you plenty of bass.

There new XLS line, i'm sure will give you plenty of bass. How "accurate" they are, or "musical" I have no Idea. I've never heard these speakers. My guess would be you would like the XLS- 12. (at least for bass)A pretty much stock 3 way speaker.



Your NAD amp is very nice, and it is underrated on it's 40 watts. It will probably push the XLS -12's with no problem. CV's are very efficient speakers.



If you go with a large floor standing tower, such as the Polk Rti7, or 9s/12's or the LSi15's. Power wise, your about min100 watts short of what you need to run these. I'm not trying to bust your stones here, just the opposite. Just trying to be honest with you. If you buy any of these speakers and try and run them with the NAD, your just going to unhappy with the sound and probably damage the speakers.



Now I have a set of RTi12's, I have a large power amp to run them. This power amp happens to have large meters on the front. Now how "accurate" they are i don't know. But i will tell you, if i turn up the volume at all (which i would not say is really loud) The needles will sit at 50 watts and jump why up from that. These type of large floor standing towers, just need a large "High Current" amp to push them. It's just not Polk, it's pretty much anybodies Large towers.

Just the way things are now.

I don't want to give the impression that I'm not listening to what all of have taken the time to tell me. I do try to qualify what people are saying though. To many times posters make comments on something they really have no experience with because of preconceived ideas or comments they have heard from someone who knows someone that said so and so speakers are junk.

To tonyb, I say I'm not leaning towards the CV's because I have never heard them. Bass isn't the only parameter that I look for in a pair of speakers but bass is important. I do appreciate everyone's comments here! This has been a frustrating search for speakers that I will be happy with! I had a pair of Optimus speakers that I dearly loved but sold them some years ago to "upgrade" and now I wish I had kept them. ((Had a Sony receiver then)

I'm am currently considering buying a more powerful NAD amp and using the NAD 3140 as a preamp for my system.

dracoskeeper

I'm am currently considering buying a more powerful NAD amp and using the NAD 3140 as a preamp for my system.

My sentiments exactly! I was at a friends house last year doing an electrical job and he showed me his "system". He had a Denon 75wpc avr driving TSI300's, it was horrendous! No bass! I picked him up some RT2000's and a Denon 4206 and he is in heaven. I then took his 300's home to sell on CL, hooked them to my man cave system, Tubed pre and 300wpc tubed hybrid. I was very surprised when they thumped some decent bass. I left them hooked up for two weeks and the bass got more than presentable. This leads me to believe they were never even broken in, 75wpc from the Denon wasn't enough. My Ushers were similar, but I knew going in that they needed/loved clean power and that the bass would open up after several hundred hours. I would borrow/purchase a better amp and see what they can do before anything else.

naturallight

This is a really good idea..."assumeing" the Nad has pre outs..you may want to check on that and be 100% sure before you buy.

The other issue i would have, is your kind of doing this **** backwards.... You should really pick the speakers first...then buy the amp that will push them right.

Now throwing more power at the TSi300's is nice...but not going to give you any more then you have with the stock NAD 3140 you have now. These speakers are just NOT going to give you the bass you want.


What speakers do you think you may want???

naturallight

My best guess on speakers you would want within your 1K budget would be the LSi 15...if you want Polks. They are the most "musical" speakers at least according to 90% of the people on this site. I can't tell you, i don't have them.

The problem you would have..is there side fireing woofers..if you don't have a clear space on one end of your room, then your going to have a problem. There also 4 ohm speakers..so you have to buy an amp that will drive these and not blow up.

If you don't have the room, or a couch or something else in the way..then you pretty much need front fireing speakers.

Just a note on this..and again may depend on your room layout as to what speakers you can use.

wayne3burk

I think you should get a used pair of Maggies - whatever fits inside your budget.... you won't be disappointed. (yes i'm a biased Maggie MG-I owner)

--wayne--

naturallight

OK first off were dealing with a guy that has TSi300 speakers. These to me are the pretty much low end or speakers that really can't cut it..I mean there 200 buck speakers.

The guy wants some bass out of speakers, You really want to throw Maggeis at him.....like

they don't need massive power and are NOT going to give the bass he wants?????

NOT what i would think is a good speaker for him.

audionuts373

naturallight wrote: »

This is a really good idea..."assumeing" the Nad has pre outs..you may want to check on that and be 100% sure before you buy.

The other issue i would have, is your kind of doing this **** backwards.... You should really pick the speakers first...then buy the amp that will push them right.

Now throwing more power at the TSi300's is nice...but not going to give you any more then you have with the stock NAD 3140 you have now. These speakers are just NOT going to give you the bass you want.


What speakers do you think you may want???

The NAD 3140 does have pre outs and I'm considering a NAD 2400 power amp that puts out 100 watts Rms per channel.

I only have about 50 hours on the Polk TSI300's. If I buy the NAD power amp I'll give the 300's another 50 hours of break-in time and see if that helps. If not, I have been looking at the Polk RTI A7's because the specs look good and they are within my budget of $1000.

amulford

You need to hear some Amazings, but you are going to need some power

cnh

Carver Amazings are great speakers, but this post has gone far off field. To the OP. What do you want to do. Get more bass or upgrade your system?

Get a nice sub if you want bass. This is not rocket science here.

If you want to deal with Maggies and Amazings, etc. I'm sorry to say that you're going to have to get rid of ALL of your amplification and think big and powerful!

GL!

cnh

audionuts373

cnh wrote: »

Carver Amazings are great speakers, but this post has gone far off field. To the OP. What do you want to do. Get more bass or upgrade your system?

Get a nice sub if you want bass. This is not rocket science here.

If you want to deal with Maggies and Amazings, etc. I'm sorry to say that you're going to have to get rid of ALL of your amplification and think big and powerful!

GL!

cnh

I have listened to Maggies and I was not impressed with the bass. I'm certainly not interested in upgrading to amps that would run Amazings! Too much money!

halo71

audionuts373 wrote: »

I have listened to Maggies and I was not impressed with the bass.

That right there tells me you should get a pair of CV's.

dhart86

audionuts pm me if you are interested in a psw 111 sub. It is great for music fast and musical. I could send onr your way for a good price

Amherst

naturallight wrote: »

OK first off were dealing with a guy that has TSi300 speakers. These to me are the pretty much low end or speakers that really can't cut it..I mean there 200 buck speakers.

The guy wants some bass out of speakers, You really want to throw Maggeis at him.....like

they don't need massive power and are NOT going to give the bass he wants?????

NOT what i would think is a good speaker for him.

Have you ever listened to TSi's fed by a good rig and properly set up?
I have my doubts. They are an excellent budget speaker with good performance and sound stage.

jeremymarcinko

Amherst wrote: »

Have you ever listened to TSi's fed by a good rig and properly set up?
I have my doubts. They are an excellent budget speaker with good performance and sound stage.

+1

If the OP just wants more Boomidy bang, get a big powered sub. They're lots of big musical subs under a $1000. Problem solved. You can alway "upgrade" mains or amps down the road.

cnh

jeremymarcinko wrote: »

+1

If the OP just wants more Boomidy bang, get a big powered sub. They're lots of big musical subs under a $1000. Problem solved. You can alway "upgrade" mains or amps down the road.

I was with both of you at the beginning of this post. But our poster seems to NOT want to pursue the easiest and MOST OBVIOUS solution to his problem? In fact, he "resists" it!

cnh

audionuts373

cnh wrote: »

I was with both of you at the beginning of this post. But our poster seems to NOT want to pursue the easiest and MOST OBVIOUS solution to his problem? In fact, he "resists" it!

cnh

If you are talking about subs, it's because of limitations on where I can place the sub due to the layout of the room. That, plus the fact that I have to make the "right" decision this time because my wife is not going to let me spend much more money! :-)

cstmar01

audionuts373 wrote: »

I have listened to Maggies and I was not impressed with the bass. I'm certainly not interested in upgrading to amps that would run Amazings! Too much money!

who says that you have to spend a ton on an amp to get good sound from the Amazings?? I had a Adcom 5802 powering and it was purchased for under 700 bucks used. Parasound 2200 I got for like 450 bucks used and that still pushed them fine and if you don't think they have bass well, then you are looking for party speakers.

Sorry I heard the CW as they are carried by a "dealer" here and was playing them. IMO terrible, way too much trebble and the bass was just booming and not tight and accurate. I did not like them at all and they are good for parties as I think that is what one of the frats here was using for their house system and did good when I was in school and was just trying to pick up the girl from class I thought was cute but not something I would then want to go home and listen to when trying to talk.. :twisted:

audionuts373

Amherst wrote: »

Have you ever listened to TSi's fed by a good rig and properly set up?
I have my doubts. They are an excellent budget speaker with good performance and sound stage.

The NAD 3140 is a very good rig.

audionuts373

cstmar01 wrote: »

Sorry I heard the CW as they are carried by a "dealer" here and was playing them. IMO terrible, way too much trebble and the bass was just booming and not tight and accurate. I did not like them at all and they are good for parties as I think that is what one of the frats here was using for their house system and did good when I was in school and was just trying to pick up the girl from class I thought was cute but not something I would then want to go home and listen to when trying to talk.. :twisted:

Thank you cstmar01! That's the kind of answer I have been waiting for.

naturallight

Audionuts, i see you like the NAD stuff. The 2400 is a nice amp. It is right on the edge of not having enough power.

You may want to up your game to the 2600. There is one on ebay right now, that the bids are only up to 88 bucks. So you may be able to get it for less then $200. With that amp you can pretty much power any speaker you want.

The power amp may help out the TSi 300 some....but don't expect alot. Your not going to get the bass your looking for. The speakers just can't do it.



Your choice of the RTi7's is not bad, they are considered to be the most "musical" of the RTi line. At least on this site.

You can get them on the Polk ebay site for $800 for the pair. I kind of went overboard and got the RTi12's which you can get on the polk site for even cheaper at $750 for the pair...LOL They are not considered the best for 2 channel music on here. But none of the RTi line is really considered "good" for strait up 2 channel stereo.



The LSi 15's on the other hand, are considered one of Polks best 2 channel stereo speakers. You can get them on the Polk site, but are 1K for the pair. Just something for you to think about. It would depend on what speakers you have heard and what you like and dislike about them, to come up with any real kind of speaker recommendation...LOL



Ive heard Maggies, Martin Logans...there wonderful speakers, but unless you throw an easy 1k sub at them, they just don't work for me. But thats just me.

audionuts373

I saw the Nad 2600 on Ebay but it looks pretty rough cosmetically. This equipment is going into my living room and I take pride not only in how my equipment sounds but also on how it looks. Thanks for the heads up though!

audionuts373

:idea:I just left the Polk site on Ebay and looked at the RTi10 speakers they have for $275 apiece. Recommended minimum power is 20 watts. Any comments? ( I'm still going to upgrade the power on my NAD)

Dawgfish

If you are looking at the RTi line for music and want a lot of bass, I would look at the RTi12. I owned the RTi8s, 10s, and 12s and imho, the 12s were the best for music. The bass is outstanding provided you run some power to them and they can take a lot of power and keep on rocking. If you like your music loud, the 12s will not disappoint. Your NAD will do the job at first, but adding a good two channel power amp like a B&K ST202+, Adcom GFA 555, etc will do wonders for them. You can regularily find the amps mentioned above for around $300ish on the used market. I prefer warmer sounding amps like B&K, Parasound, Odyssey, etc. with the RTi12s, but thats my personal opinion. I find the RTi12s to also be the least bright out of the RTi line. Just my dos centavos.