Speaker Wire

wcd3

I have been doing a lot of research on the Internet about Speaker Wire. It is always hard to seperate fact from fiction from opinion on the Internet, but it appears their are two camps. The audiophile camp uses special cables from like AudioQuest perhaps Monster and others. Another camp that states that cables make very little difference. I probably believe the truth lies somewhere in the middle. I read an article that I believe was in the New York Times if I remember correctly quoting the head of Dunlavy Audio labs about the overstatements of most cable vendors. If I remember correctly even the Director of Communications @ Polk was asked, but it appears he did not want to comment so that his distributors would not get upset. I would suggest good cables are what ever gets the job done. The conclusions I have come to thus far are:

1) Use 12 AWG (manufacturer not as big of an issue). I have had problems with cheaper cable oxidizing though (turning grean inside the insulation). I will probably continue to use Monster or whatever brand is just a step up from what I can get at the Lumber store.

2) Fancy single/multi-core designs probably don't add that much. You would have to have some terrific eagle ears to notice the difference. Most double blind tests that I read on the Internet basically pointed out that most experts could not tell the difference between the cables. Just use typical stranded speaker wire.

I don't intend to start a flame war here. If someone has some useful web links to credible sources that could shed light on either side of the topic, I think this group as a whole would appreciate it. There appears to be very little good information on this topic, so I wanted to mention my findings and see if someone had come to better conclusions than I.

Thanks,

wcd3

On the same note, most of my findings show that if you use a good 12AWG stranded speaker wire. Even bi-wiring will not net you a significant difference. If you were to bi-wire say two cables of 16AWG. You might actually hear the difference perhaps.

wangotango68

http://2eyespy.tripod.com/myaudioandhometheaterhomepage/id3.html

try this link it will answer alot of your questions.

scott :cool:

hoosier21

I have heard the difference between cheap speaker wire and better speaker wire, my experience is el cheapo 16 gauge vs. Moster Cable Z1r ($80.00 or so for 10' pair)

I have no experience with really high end cables, but with my mid-fi cables I can hear the difference.

I-SIG

Like I said in the Interconnect thread, get AudioQuest. I recently installed the CV-4 speaker wires. Immediate improvement in the bass. Not only did my RT55i's reproduce the ultra-low (for 55's) bass better, there was a defintely improvement in the quality and detail of the bass. It had growl and detail at the same time. Highs were smooth, yet crisp and not too bright, which is good conisering the Tri-lam tweeter can be slightly harsh at volume. Midrange was cleaner and fuller too.

My feeling on the higher-end cables lies mostly with the quality of materials. Better materials can't help but improve the sound, regardless of the actual cable design itself.

Wes

joelll

You'll find both camps of opinion on the Polk forums.

My opinion is:

All of the claims that I have seen have involved pseudo-scientific babble or pure opinion and marketing.

When real (academically rigorous) testing methods are put in place, either with electronic bench-testing equipment or with listener comparison testing under blind- or double-blind conditions, then people can't tell the difference between good quality ordinary wire and exotic cables. When they can see the cables and speaker wire, then suddenly differences appear.

It's not easy to admit, especially after spending the money, that no difference might be heard.

There's a worry that one might be missing out on something because a spool of 12- or 14-gauge speaker wire costs only $30 or so. There's also an idea that sound can be improved with the application of some kind of exotic (or even basic) know-how having to do with the cables. There's a very successful sales pitch that says that expensive amplifiers and signal sources and speakers require expensive wires to "get the most out of them."

Although we're distributed all over the place, I would love to bring the Polk forum people together for a double-blind testing session. Using a quality amplifier, quality cd player, an assortment of Polk speakers, and all the cables and wires that people could bring with them, and then compare to $5 interconnects and ordinary $30 to $50/spool speaker wire in 12- to 14- gauge.

I am quite confident that we'd find what other people who have done this testing have found: exotic cables and wires make no audible difference.

wcd3

Joel,

You read my mind. That appears to be the case... People just want to believe SO MUCH that it really did make a difference after shelling out a ton of money. Heck, I have put down several hundred dollars in Monster Interconnect and speaker wire myself. I feel somewhat bad that I have overpaid. The good thing is they do have nicer connectors and the speaker wire after a few years of usage have not oxidized. I have cheaper cable that has oxidized (even some that has turned green believe it or not). This is the only good thing I have found so far about using a brand name cable. Until there is a cheaper brand name version of cable out there without using luber yard cable, I'll probably continue to use Monster cables... I would say the better investment in money would be a good set of speakers (Polk of course) and a good receiver with enough wattage along with a minimum of high-current and discrete amp circuitry. If you feel like you haven't spent enough, save on the cable and go with some kind of voltage regulation. I would bet that would make a bigger difference in clarity than high priced speaker wire...

Aaron

Speaker wire and interconnects definitely make a difference. Sometimes it's subtle, sometimes it's not. I don't think someone should worry about fancy wires and interconnects until they have put together a good system. It isn't worth it until your system is ready for it. I think if you have a modest system I would spend the money on speaker wire for your mains ($100 max), interconnects for your primary source(s) ($50 max), and a subwoofer interconnect ($50-75 max depending on length). That's just my take on it. In my home theater system I experienced the most gain from my subwoofer interconnects, second most with my CD player interconnects, and the least gain (and most expensive) was with my speaker wire.

Aaron

schumach

I have seen more of a performance problem with oxidation, then between 16 and 18 awg wire. One thing I have done with my ends is solder them with good silver solder. Silver takes longer to oxidize. I did a test awhile back. I took some speaker wire and stripped the ends. One end I soldered and the other I did not. It only took the end that was not soldered 4 months to oxidize. I still have not seen any change on the soldered side. The inside wires of the non-soldered end were ok, but that is not what is making contact with the terminals. This is only my opinion.

blu_viper

As far as speaker wires go i've used everything from the wire you can get at the hardware store to monster cables z-series and the only difference i've ever noticed (other than price!) was that there is no difference between sound if you're just changing companies but if you change from a 16 or 18 ga. wire to a 12 ga. than you will notice a big difference in your bass

trubluluc

Scott,
Thanks for the..
FREAKING AWESOME link.

-luc

ashuanipix

I have the Polk monitor rta 12 speakers. In the manual, Polk recommends using Polk cables. Does Polk still make cables? I haven't seen any references to cables on the web site

joelll

Originally posted by ashuanipix
I have the Polk monitor rta 12 speakers. In the manual, Polk recommends using Polk cables. Does Polk still make cables? I haven't seen any references to cables on the web site

I don't believe that Polk sells speaker cables any longer.

Your RTA's (excellent speakers!) will sound just fine with 16-gauge (or larger; a smaller gauge number means bigger wire) speaker wire.

For my Monitor 12's (the immediate ancestor to the RTA-12's) I have generic 12-gauge speaker wire that a friend gave me and I terminated it myself with banana plugs on one end, and metal pins on the other end that fit into the speaker terminals on my ancient Sansui receiver.

ashuanipix

Thanks for your help.
I found the site recommended by Wangotango68 very informative. I wanted to have banana plugs to facilitate the hookups to my RTA 12s so decided to use this opportunity to switch from 16 gauge to 12 gauge wire. Unlike other people who posted, I noticed no difference whatsoever in the bass (or elsewhere) at the same volume setting with the heavier wire. I used Bach's Toccata & Fugue in D minor - London label- played by Peter Hurford which has great pipe organ bass for comparison purposes. I have my system, a NAD c370 amp, the Polks and a JVC cd player, in a room with a "cathedral" ceiling (highest point about 24 feet) so I can crank it up.

SONYTHEATER

I JUST WONTED TO SAY I DO THINK WIRE DOES MAKE A DIFFERANCE TO A CERTAIN EXTENT. IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT,SAY TODAY YOU SPEND MAYBE 65.00 ON SOME HALF BRAND BUT STILL DECENT WIRE, AND IN 6 MONTHS YOUR CUTTING MABEY 4"OFF EACH END BECAUSE OF OXIDATION,THAN IN ONE YEAR YOUR 16" SHORT (DO YA SEE WHERE IM GOING) AND SOONER OR LATER YOUR BUYING NEW WIRE AGAIN. THE REASON I SAY THIS IS YOU MIGHT SAVE A FEW BUCKS AT FIRST BUT SOONER OR LATER IT WILL CATCH UP,SPEND A FEW MORE NOW SAVE LATER. SECOND THICKER AWG WIRES POSE LESS RESISTANCE PER FOOT OF WIRE AND WILL HANDLE MORE CURRENT SO IF YOUR RUNNING LONG SPANS OR USING A GOOD AMOUNT OF POWER A THICKER AWG IS A GOOD IDEA. IVE SEEN PEOPLE MELT 16 AND 18 AWG WIRE BARE. ANOTHER THING BETTER WIRE OFFERS LIKE MONSTER CABLE FOR EXAMPLE THEIR 12 AWG WIRE USES A VERY HEAVY INSULATION, OXYGEN FREE COPPER WIRE, AND THEIR MAGNETIC FLUX TUBE WHICH HELPS GET RID OF THINGS LIKE GROUND HUM,IT MAY SOUND CRAZY BUT SPEAKER WIRE WILL EASILY PICK UP A HUM OFF POWER WIRES NEAR BY. IN ALL TRUTH I DONT REALLY THINK YOUR GONNA SEE A BIG DIFFERANCE BUT YOU WILL SEE SOME, AND OVER ALL A FEW LITTLE THINGS WILL ADD UP IN THE END,AND IT MAY JUST MAKE YOUR SYSTEM COME TO LIFE ALL OVER AGAIN. THATS JUST MY TAKE ON IT ALL...

wangotango68

hay sony theater were are you from in indiana?

scott:cool:

CaptainOreo

I really don't care too much about sound... I mean I do... but I say just go with some 12AWG like everyone else's sayin'... or heck do like I did - Just buy the stuff that looks cool
I bought that gamma stuff ya know? -- (blue black and white) It's 11 Gauge so it shouldn't hurt the sound any... but it matches the car!

ducati

In my experience (not huge, only about 12 years in truly high end gear) it takes some good gear to notice a difference when switching cables. I have done non-scientific testing myself, and when using >$1500 amps, pre's, speakers, etc interconnects and wires DO make a difference..

However, as the original poster stated, I believe the 'truth' lies somewhat in between the audiophile camps and the Home Depot camps. For myself, I pick mid-level interconnects/speaker wire.. And have always had great results.

The thing is, a wire should do NOTHING to the sound. It shouldn't make it 'brighter' 'softer' 'punchier' or whatever. If it's doing it's job, it shouldn't add any coloration, or take anything away. I think you can get to this level of performance with a relatively small cash outlay.

I use AudioQuest Type 4+ speaker cable throughout my systems, and love the stuff. Well-built, sounds great, relatively cheap (cheaper than Monster Z1), and lasts forever. I use AudioQuest, MIT, or Monster Interlink 400 for my interconnects (<$50/set stuff).

Cable questions bring up fiery debates.. Like the link above.. Most people seem to take one extreme side or the other. I think there's a grey area in the middle... Just not many people sit there.

If you have a good hifi shop in town, they will let you borrow cables to test. See what you think, with your gear, in your house. Then let us know what you find