Which Sub to buy?

Early B.

I'm considering buying a good quality sub, but I don't want an SVS or Hsu (WAF and price). My budget is $500, preferably including shipping. My den is 13 x 20 x 8. I'm 70% movies, 30% music. I don't play either movies or music very loudly. Here is what I want ideally:

1) a sub that can go close to 20 Hz.
2) a new one
3) a sub with ample wattage (250 or more)
4) a sub that has good reviews
5) a sub with good aesthetic appeal (ex. a cherry option); NOTE: if my wife thinks it's pretty, she'll support future audio purchases.
6) tight bass, minimal distortion, high build quality, etc.

I've looked at Adire Audio Rava and Velodyne CHT-10, but they don't quite meet the criteria. I like the Klipsch RW-12, but I haven't seen any reviews on it yet. I also like the Earthquake SuperNova MKIV 10", but I'm not sure about the frequency response.

I realize I'll have to make some concessions, but I'm pretty firm with my budget. Any ideas?

PolkThug

For that price I recommend the Polk PSW505. You can probably get one delivered from Crutchfield for 499. That's what I'm using in my theater room which is the same size as your room. (you can see it in system showcase) It definitely hits harder than that series of Velodyne. Here are the 505 specs from my previous post:

505 freq. response is 23-160hz
505 amp is 300watt continuous (460 peak)

You will truly feel the bass in movies with this sub.

Regards,
PolkThug

Early B.

Thanks. It's ashamed that I didn't even consider a Polk sub, so I'll put it on my list of possible subs to buy.

On the Polk website, the overall freq. resp. for this sub is listed as 23 - 160 Hz. Then it says the lower -3dB limit is 28 Hz and the upper -3dB limit is 125 Hz.

What does this mean?
What is the true freq. resp. for this sub?

The reason I ask is beacuse Crutchfield's website lists the sub's freq. resp. as starting at 28 Hz, not 23 Hz.

PolkThug

It is slightly not as loud at its very low and very high end. This is probably true about most subs.

I'm guessing that it can hit 23hz but with probably greater than a 3db loss. Make sense?

Anyway, on a non-technical note, anybody who has watched Final Destination2 or Matrix at my place leave in awe!

Regards,
PolkThug

RuSsMaN

Phase Tech? Who mentioned Phase Tech? Isn't it about time for you to spontaneously combust?

You should look at the HSU VTF-2 $499 free shipping.

http://www.hsustore.com/vtf2.html

goingganzo

diy av12mk2

or order a pre asembled one from stryke soon to change their name.

they have a mini thunder for 549

Dr. Spec

The -3 dB point means that the subwoofer output is 3 dB lower at that frequency as compared to frequencies higher in the bandwidth. The dB scale is log10, so a 3 dB loss represents a 50% drop in acoustic output.

The frequency response lower limit of 23 Hz is almost assuredly the -10 dB point.

The effective lower limit of the 505 is probably around 28 Hz in-room with room gain considered. Below that, I'm sure it nosedives pretty quickly, by Polk's own admission.

Not that 28 Hz is bad for a lower extension; it's pretty decent. But it won't do full justice to the "really" deep stuff on the hottest DVDs, despite the enthusiastic claims of owners to the contrary. I'm sure it does shake the house on stuff like Matrix Reloaded, which is primarily in the 30-35 Hz region. After all, it is packing 300 watts continuous and has a beefy looking 12" driver with a high roll surround.

The VTF-2 won't keep up with the 12" offerings from SVS, Polk, Stryke, Adire, etc. Tune it to 25 Hz and you have a 10" driver blowing out a single 3" port - hardly the recipe for pants waffling. It's also built in China, which doesn't appeal to me.

It's pretty hard to find a vented wood finish sub in your price range. I'd say jump on the SVS PB1-Plus in a heartbeat, but it's twice your budget. The PB1-ISD is the same size for $600 but has a black or colored textured finish.

I like Bryan's recommendation of the Strke Mini-Thunder for $549 in a wood finish. But it's passive and you'll need an amp, which will price it out of your budget.

Also look at the $600 Adire Dharman which uses a vented Shiva driver with a wood finish.

Doc

RuSsMaN

"Reviewer Tom Nousaine in Sound & Vision measured 109.7 dB from 25 to 62 Hz with under 10% total harmonic distortion."

Is that ****? What about all the positive write ups and praise in the audio press? Is it the be all end all of subwoofers, no. Is it worth a listen - YES (imo).

The dude said his budget was $500 shipped, care to make a recommendation that fits his parameters this time?

Dr. Spec

Russ - it's a good sub - no denying that and you made a fine recommendation.

And Nousaine's data doesn't lie, although you quoted the average integrated output over that entire frequency range with a 10% THD limit. It won't do 110 dB at 25 Hz with a 10% THD limit.

Also, he specifically said no SVS or HSU, although I'm just as guilty of mentioning SVS in my previous post.

The VTF-2 is not terribly good looking, and would probably have a low WAF. It's a solid choice in his price range, but I was thinking more along the aesthetics line too.

My final recommendation is the Adire Dharman for $600 in wood finish. It will outperform the VTF-2 with a bigger driver, more internal volume, more power, a lower tune point, and more vent space (than the VTF-2 in the 25 Hz tune), and look better doing it. The WAF should be much higher than the VTF-2.

RuSsMaN

I figured he was referring to the 'sonotube' style SVS and HSU...

The box subs are, well, box subs. Usually no 'wife' issues there, no?

Cheers,
Russ

Dr. Spec

From Nousaine with his new 7500 ft3 room.

All figures are for a corner loaded subwoofer, 2 meter mic distance,10% distortion limit,and the SPLs have been averaged from the maximum output at 1/3 spacing at 25/31/40/50/63hz.

HSU VTF-2:

107.1 dB 25-63 Hz average with 10% limit.
93 dB at 20 Hz at 10% limit.

Adire Dharman:

107.9 dB 25-63 Hz average with 10% THD limit.
96dB at 20 Hz at 10% limit.

This data shows that the VTF-2 and the Dharman have a very similar overall output capability, since the VTF-2 can pound really well in the upper registers with low distortion.

But the Dharman has twice the acoustic output at 20 Hz than the VTF-2 at the same distortion limit - a significant advantage.

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by RuSsMaN
I figured he was referring to the 'sonotube' style SVS and HSU...

The box subs are, well, box subs. Usually no 'wife' issues there, no?

Cheers,
Russ

Well, some boxes are prettier than others, that's for sure. I imagine a wood finish sub would have a higher WAF than a black textured one, all things considered.

And yeah, the tubes have a pretty low WAF, even if you can find one in wood finish (rare).

Early B.

For the WAF, size matters.

I looked at the PSB1, but it's huge!!! I'd have a hard time trying to place it in my den. That ain't gonna work, and I'm not even going to try. Cylinder subs are absolutely out of the question.

When I get the basement finished and put a home theater room down there, then the situation will change. But for now, aesthetics, size, and price are three isssues I have to consider. I'm just trying to get the best bang for my buck and stay on my wife's good side with my new hobby/obsession. So far, so good.

I appreciate everyone's input. I will be researching your recommendations and buy one within a week or so.

Early B.

Couldn't find any specs on the Stryke Mini Thunder even on their own website. Anyone know the specs?

hoosier21

Originally posted by Early B.
For the WAF, size matters.

oh they say it doesn't matter, but it does

Dr. Spec

Originally posted by Early B.
Couldn't find any specs on the Stryke Mini Thunder even on their own website. Anyone know the specs?

Do a search over at HTF. There was a recent discussion on the Mini-Thunder and John Janowitz (Styrke owner) made some comments about it.

Early B.

I decided on getting the Hsu VTF-2. It fits within my budget of $499, including shipping. I simply could not ignore the number of rave reviews on this sub as well as its unique features.

Looking forward to its arrival.

Dr. Spec

Well, the VTF-2 doesn't meet two of your original criteria (power and WAF), but it does fit into your budget and it is a good performer for a 10" driver.

In that size room (13x20x8), I personally would have opted for nothing less than a 12" driver, but if you don't push it too hard, you'll probably be OK with a 10" unit.

For another $140 (delivered), the Dharman is certainly more sub, and meets two more of your criteria (aesthetics and amp power), and has twice the clean output capability at 20 Hz.

Anyway, enjoy your new purchase and congrats! If it turns out to disappoint, Hsu offers a 30 day return policy, so you are OK there.

goingganzo

sorry dubble post

goingganzo

the last time i checked the message bord @stryke he was selling some pr enclosers prety cheap. maybe you can get a encloser and the parts and put it togher your self and come in under 500.


finished thunder 12 for 200 http://forum.stryke.com/viewtopic.php?t=77&sid=981fc86bc4a9cb7d3dcbf2a566a3dcc9
add 100 for pr and 140 for the av12

that is 440+ship no power but you can get a plate amp for about 100


and you can get unfinished cabs for about 125 you just need to vener.