First Ever Martin Logans

falconcry72
falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
edited November 2012 in Speakers
Just bought a bulk lot of equipment off craigslist to keep some of and sell most of. Included were (2) pairs of Martin Logan SL3's. Never owned a Martin Logan before. I'm giving them a good workout in my main 2-channel system and they sound pretty good. I like my maggies better, but the Logans have real nice, textural, high frequency range and great 3d imaging. Awesome front-to-back spacing.
2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited November 2012
    Going a little old school with the SL3s! How does the BAT VK500 do with those speakers?

    Do they have any buzz to the panel? I was quoted by ML that their panels lose their static charge after 15 years, which has always made me hesitant to buy a used pair. You can buy replacement panels from them that simply bolt in place, but the price out weighed what most sellers wanted for their used MLs.
    Jake
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  • Upstatemax
    Upstatemax Posts: 2,685
    edited November 2012
    zingo wrote: »
    Going a little old school with the SL3s! How does the BAT VK500 do with those speakers?

    Do they have any buzz to the panel? I was quoted by ML that their panels lose their static charge after 15 years, which has always made me hesitant to buy a used pair. You can buy replacement panels from them that simply bolt in place, but the price out weighed what most sellers wanted for their used MLs.

    That's easy, just rub your feet around your home with wool socks on for a few minutes and touch the old panel. Instant recharge!
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited November 2012
    zingo wrote: »
    Going a little old school with the SL3s! How does the BAT VK500 do with those speakers?

    Do they have any buzz to the panel? I was quoted by ML that their panels lose their static charge after 15 years, which has always made me hesitant to buy a used pair. You can buy replacement panels from them that simply bolt in place, but the price out weighed what most sellers wanted for their used MLs.

    FYI I'm definitely not keeping the Logans. They are a part of the 90% of the stuff that I'll be selling... I just wanted to give'em a good listen while they were in the house. Panels seem to be doing fine! None of the aging symptoms that you read about.
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • cnh
    cnh Posts: 13,284
    edited November 2012
    Upstatemax wrote: »
    That's easy, just rub your feet around your home with wool socks on for a few minutes and touch the old panel. Instant recharge!

    That's funny!

    Have fun with the new speakers, falconcry

    cnh
    Currently orbiting Bowie's Blackstar.!

    Polk Lsi-7s, Def Tech 8" sub, HK 3490, HK HD 990 (CDP/DAC), AKG Q701s
    [sig. changed on a monthly basis as I rotate in and out of my stash]
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited November 2012
    The thing with logans is you will never know how aged they are or how the panels should sound until you replace them. It is very hard to place these speakers and some owners will go their whole term of ownership without ever finding it. Once you hear these in a treated room the sound will blow you away and the best way I can describe the perfect placement sound is just like wearing a pair of earphones but you need big fresh panels to achieve it. I never got the full benefit with the ML source because the room was too big and panels too small. The sweet spot with these electrostats is only 12 inches so its a very selfish one person deal. They still sound great for guests being over but in that sweet spot they sound magical with infinite depth and every single bell and whistle is not only there but its with you and organic.

    Try a full setup for HT with these and it really is something else altogether, with the transparency these give combined with a bluray is perfection. I find nothing else the same especially for late night movies when you cant have the volume up loud you can still hear everything at low volume. If I had a dedicated theater and subs I may go for another brand of speakers for HT
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited November 2012
    Yea I'm not replacing panels or anything... just flippin'em as is. But they sound pretty good! Imaging, and 3D soundstage is their strength for sure. I love the distance between instruments from the front to back. Super cool. But yea, the sweet spot is tiny. I like my maggies better.

    I will try them in my HT setup this weekend, with a Cinema center channel... then off they go!
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • zingo
    zingo Posts: 11,258
    edited November 2012
    There are many 20+ year old pairs of MLs on my local craigslist for $1-2K. They were well worth that in the past, but I was chatting with a seller who wanted $2500 for a pair of Quest Z which are 20 years old, and were great in their day. However, a new panel directly from ML for those speakers is $1K, and they do need new panels at their age, no matter what anyone says. Those speakers are NOT worth $3500, if they're worth $1500, but convince the guy who paid big bucks for the a few years ago, and has babied them ever since.

    The issue with MLs that most people don't realized is you keep a pair around long enough, and they aren't worth much based on the panel replacement requirement. There aren't many speakers that need $500-$1000 worth of parts 20 years after they leave the factory, simply because of age and the inherent design, regardless of condition.
    Jake
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 33,006
    edited November 2012
    Ya know, I dig ML and how they sound. If you can get past the downside, like them being picky on placement, small sweet spot, humidity or smoke in the house, expensive panel relacement, you may like them. :wink:
    HT SYSTEM-
    Sony 850c 4k
    Pioneer elite vhx 21
    Sony 4k BRP
    SVS SB-2000
    Polk Sig. 20's
    Polk FX500 surrounds

    Cables-
    Acoustic zen Satori speaker cables
    Acoustic zen Matrix 2 IC's
    Wireworld eclipse 7 ic's
    Audio metallurgy ga-o digital cable

    Kitchen

    Sonos zp90
    Grant Fidelity tube dac
    B&k 1420
    lsi 9's
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited November 2012
    So.... what stuff do you have in that 90% that you want to sell :smile:
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited November 2012
    yea guys I get the downsides to logans... like I said, I got these as a part of a larger lot of equipment (30+) pieces. I'm only looking to get a few hundred bucks out of each pair, which is more than reasonable, even given the aforementioned drawbacks.:wink:
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited November 2012
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    So.... what stuff do you have in that 90% that you want to sell :smile:

    let's see, (4) Monster Power AVS-2000's, (2) HTPS-7000's, (1) HTS-5100, (4) Yamaha M-80's, (1) Yamaha MX-1000u, possibly a couple pairs of LSi-FX's (what drew me to the ad in the first place!), (4) Yamaha EQ-550's, (1) Panasonic projector (1080p, forget the model), (1) Onkyo TX-SR805, a few other random pieces, bunch of cables and crap...
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited November 2012
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    let's see, (4) Monster Power AVS-2000's, (2) HTPS-7000's, (1) HTS-5100, (4) Yamaha M-80's, (1) Yamaha MX-1000u, possibly a couple pairs of LSi-FX's (what drew me to the ad in the first place!), (4) Yamaha EQ-550's, (1) Panasonic projector (1080p, forget the model), (1) Onkyo TX-SR805, a few other random pieces, bunch of cables and crap...

    Dang thats quite a haul, hopefully you made out price wise. Those LSi f/x's are nice speakers. I keep debating if/when I go 7.1 if its with a set of LSi 7's in the rear or another set of LSi f/x's. Plus those babies are super hard to find since there were never really even that many of them in the firesale of the LSi lineup on the ebay site.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • ken brydson
    ken brydson Posts: 8,783
    edited November 2012
    A WTB was posted yesterday for an Onk 805...

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?138248-Onkyo-TX-SR805
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited November 2012
    ken brydson wrote: »
    A WTB was posted yesterday for an Onk 805...

    http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?138248-Onkyo-TX-SR805

    Thanks, Ken!
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited November 2012
    EndersShadow wrote: »
    ...hopefully you made out price wise...

    Yep! :wink:


    Yea the FXi's are awesome. Best surrounds I've heard. I already have a pair.

    It might be nice for you to have a pair of 7's on hand, in case you ever wanted them for a different 2-channel setup or something, but (2) pairs of FXi's would make for a pretty immersive experience!
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited November 2012
    falconcry72 wrote: »
    Yea the FXi's are awesome. Best surrounds I've heard. I already have a pair.

    It might be nice for you to have a pair of 7's on hand, in case you ever wanted them for a different 2-channel setup or something, but (2) pairs of FXi's would make for a pretty immersive experience!

    Yeah, thats where I am stuck.... oh well maybe I will just get a pair of LSi 7's for 2 channel (with a sub) and a LSi F/X set for my surrounds anway :smile:.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,513
    edited November 2012
    tonyb wrote: »
    If you can get past the downside......humidity or smoke in the house, expensive panel relacement, you may like them. :wink:

    miko10b.gif

    Fortunately I don't have to worry about any of that with my ESL panels.:cheesygrin: (Immune to dust, dirt, humidity, insects, pet fur, and foreign objects). This pic is from the Sanders Sound site, their kitty.

    Great score! And another speaker heard, another stick in the bag.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited November 2012
    I heard its really hard to place these as the flat panel has very little dispersion
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  • Face
    Face Posts: 14,340
    edited November 2012
    As for most being dipoles and having a large surface area, their dispersion is quite different than a traditional box speaker.
    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,513
    edited November 2012
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    I heard its really hard to place these as the flat panel has very little dispersion

    Yes, a flat panel has narrow dispersion but I don't find them difficult to set up at all. I've listened to both Summits and InnerSound in the same room at two different houses. The ML sweet spot is not that much larger (maybe two heads at best), and I feel the bass is much better with the Sanders design long excursion SEAS woofers in the folded transmission line bass module.

    Did you know that Roger Sanders, the inventor of the InnerSound speaker and UltraStat panels desrcibed above, first invented the curved ESL panel? He did not have the money to patent the idea, and went back to flat panels as he felt they sounded better. You pick what you like and run with it.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • polkfarmboy
    polkfarmboy Posts: 5,703
    edited November 2012
    Have you ever considered one of of his amps? I heard they are great for any kind of electrostats, I am very envious of the sanders speakers you have, it must be so nice not to cover them up after each time you use them
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  • SCompRacer
    SCompRacer Posts: 8,513
    edited November 2012
    polkfarmboy wrote: »
    Have you ever considered one of of his amps?


    218_100_big.jpg

    10-4, a Sanders ESL amp is below the InnerSound active crossover bass amp. It would be the first ESL amp with his name on it. He offers a MKII improved design amp now. The InnerSound/Sanders amp trace back to Coda. He asked them to add more transistors and a larger toroidal with no protection circuitry to an existing design to get 600WPC @ 4 Ohms. It was called the InnerSound MK II ESL amp. The bass amp is similar design, except they left out a couple of big caps to fit the active xover in it. The bass amp has remote control too.

    I don't have Sanders speakers, I have InnerSound MK III's. They have the UltraStat panel like his current offerings. The earlier InnerSound panels had metal powder coated stators. His UltraStat consists of a fine stator grid covered with a high value die-electric material. A CNC machine cuts the slots between the coated grids, so they are arc proof. He came up with a coating that is embedded; it doesn't slough or fall off the mylar. Darn near a lifetime panel as long as you don't physically damage them.
    Salk SoundScape 8's * Audio Research Reference 3 * Bottlehead Eros Phono * Park's Audio Budgie SUT * Krell KSA-250 * Harmonic Technology Pro 9+ * Signature Series Sonore Music Server w/Deux PS * Roon * Gustard R26 DAC / Singxer SU-6 DDC * Heavy Plinth Lenco L75 Idler Drive * AA MG-1 Linear Air Bearing Arm * AT33PTG/II & Denon 103R * Richard Gray 600S * NHT B-12d subs * GIK Acoustic Treatments * Sennheiser HD650 *
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  • falconcry72
    falconcry72 Posts: 3,580
    edited November 2012
    Update:

    I'm really diggin the logans, but these will be gone soon. I want to try a newer higher end model.

    IMG_1348.JPG

    IMG_1349.JPG
    2-Channel: PC > Schiit Eitr > Audio Research DAC-8 > Audio Research LS-26 > Pass Labs X-250.5 > Magnepan 3.7's

    Living Room: PC > Marantz AV-7703 > Emotiva XPA-5 > Sonus Faber Liuto Towers, Sonus Faber Liuto Center, Sonus Faber Liuto Bookshelves > Dual SVS PC12-Pluses

    Office: Phone/Tablet > AudioEngine B1 > McIntosh D100 > Bryston 4B-ST > Polk Audio LSiM-703's
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  • RamZet
    RamZet Posts: 792
    edited November 2012
    Very Cool!
    My sister got a pair of Motion 10s. They sound awesome. I listen to a pair of their static speakers at Best Buy too, sounded alright. Very cool looking as well.
    B&W CM9Classé Sigma
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  • drgalexo
    drgalexo Posts: 159
    edited November 2012
    Hey falcon, what is that unit below your amplifier?
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  • drgalexo
    drgalexo Posts: 159
    edited November 2012
    Great setup by the way, I'm looking to add a computer to my system at some point.
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  • EndersShadow
    EndersShadow Posts: 17,596
    edited November 2012
    drgalexo wrote: »
    Hey falcon, what is that unit below your amplifier?
    '

    I believe thats a Monster power conditioner of some sort. No idea on model.
    "....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963)
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  • drgalexo
    drgalexo Posts: 159
    edited November 2012
    Thanks Enders, that makes sense.
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  • wkjeffers
    wkjeffers Posts: 139
    edited November 2012
    Of course the ML owners club says if you shower with the panels it has magical effects. I kid you not, they say shower the panels and they will sound better if the yare older panels.
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  • wkjeffers
    wkjeffers Posts: 139
    edited November 2012
    I have Quest Z buy the way, had to buy new panels @ $800 last year. I would definietely buy newer speakers than older ones with the panel risk, better investment.
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