emotiva....what's the catch?

halo71

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Dan I think its about time to remove the " My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time " in your signature

Ouch....thas pertty funny PFB!

nhhiep

To me, Emo is like Hyundai. New player gives you the most bang for buck. Not like other well established brands with history.

Drenis

nhhiep wrote: »

To me, Emo is like Hyundai. New player gives you the most bang for buck. Not like other well established brands with history.

Except Hyundai makes great cars now.

snake1

One thing I've noticed also about Emo (aside from what has already been stated) is their products are very similar in design and size. I haven't checked the site for sure about it, but I do believe that all the X series amps, for example, are built in the same size case from the XPA1 mono to the XPA5 5 channel. It would definately save $$ to have fewer different size cases to build amps out of. Para for instance, with the new classics are all different sizes and all are metal cases. This doesn't mean bad quality, just means more efficient design IMO.

leroyjr1

What I don't understand is the hatred I see from certain forum members toward Emotiva. They're just like many other companies. They make products to fit your budget, and you can't say it's not a hatred because it is. Members have described Emotiva's products as BRIGHT and not MUSICAL and they don't recommend them but yet they recommend Polks RTI series speakers which I would describe as the same, bright, not musical and for HT only.

Phasewolf

I look at there specs and see that XPA-5 provided 200 watts per channel at 8 ohms however look at what it does at 4 ohms yep only 300 watts that to me says it's running out of steam.

I can get a nice sunfire 5 channel amp locally for 500 dollars and it can provide 200 into 8 ohm and 400 into 4 ohms and can handle even handle 2 ohms and some of the other sunfire amps and be stable down to 1 ohm.

Try hooking it using some Infinite kappa 9's with the Emotiva and tell us how it goes.

polkfarmboy

leroyjr1 wrote: »

What I don't understand is the hatred I see from certain forum members toward Emotiva. They're just like many other companies. They make products to fit your budget, and you can't say it's not a hatred because it is. Members have described Emotiva's products as BRIGHT and not MUSICAL and they don't recommend them but yet they recommend Polks RTI series speakers which I would describe as the same, bright, not musical and for HT only.

Your saying RTI are crap ?

leroyjr1

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Your saying RTI are crap ?

Guess the point went right over your head.

hochpt21

leroyjr1 wrote: »

Guess the point went right over your head.

Made sense to me. Good analogy.

hochpt21

Drenis wrote: »

Except Hyundai makes great cars now.

I agree. Seemed sketch when they first came out, but now I feel like it's a solid brand.

gdb

What's in the rotation for next weeks bash, Monster or Bose ? I lose track sometimes.........:rolleyes:

halo71

gdb wrote: »

What's in the rotation for next weeks bash, Monster or Bose ? I lose track sometimes.........:rolleyes:

I taking 10:1 on speaker cables. If you want to get in on the action please pm me.

txcoastal1

halo71 wrote: »

I taking 10:1 on speaker cables. If you want to get in on the action please pm me.

LOL...I'll take that action because next week we'll have a couple threads political threads banned

heiney9

Drenis wrote: »

Except Hyundai makes great cars now.

They make better cars than they used to, but 'great' cars? That's stretching it a bit.

H9

hochpt21

halo71 wrote: »

I taking 10:1 on speaker cables. If you want to get in on the action please pm me.

Gary, I figure this thread is so random at this point, that now would be a good time for me to tell you that I think you post some of the most quality pics.....and I don't think you get enough credit.

halo71

hochpt21 wrote: »

Gary, I figure this thread is so random at this point, that now would be a good time for me to tell you that I think you post some of the most quality pics.....and I don't think you get enough credit.

Thanks a lot bro! :biggrin:

Tony and Rick have some bromance going on.....I must admit I am a weee bit jealous....:redface:

F1nut

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Dan I think its about time to remove the " My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time " in your signature

tonyb

leroyjr1 wrote: »

What I don't understand is the hatred I see from certain forum members toward Emotiva. They're just like many other companies. They make products to fit your budget, and you can't say it's not a hatred because it is. Members have described Emotiva's products as BRIGHT and not MUSICAL and they don't recommend them but yet they recommend Polks RTI series speakers which I would describe as the same, bright, not musical and for HT only.

Well my friend, what does RTI stand for ? It's a reference theater improved speaker. Nowhere does it claim to be a musical monster. You could use them for both but HT is their main function. Matter of fact, when someone wants a music first speaker, we push them towards the LSI series first, and for good reason.

Emo tends to claim reference quality sound from their amps....musically. It's a matter of manufacturer claims and reality matching up.

I've personally subscribed to the theory that when looking for speakers to do double duty in a HT/2 channel system, look for a speaker designed for music first and chances are you won't be let down in the HT realm. If you go after a HT first speaker, you may be less than satisfied with the musical aspect. May not be always the case, but more so than not. Same with amps in a combination system. Look for a musical amp first, and your HT experience will shine too.

mantis

polkfarmboy wrote: »

Dan I think its about time to remove the " My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time " in your signature

I haven't heard their products , are they that bad?

rtart

Well, at the expense of adding to the chaos here. Thought i'd post my experiences with Emo to help out the OP in his quest for facts.

I have owned Emo XPA-3, XPA-5, and UPA-2 amps. I kept them for over two years. I actually made money on them when I sold them, but that, of course was not my intent. (I bought them during one of Emo's sales, and price increases made up for depreciation.) I replaced a stack of Carver M500t amps with them.

My separates gear progression in my HT began with a Sony TAE-9000es paired with two TAN-9000es amps, then Yamaha M series amps, then Carver. On to Emo and through ATI 2007 to a Sherbourn 7-2100 (both 7x200wpc). A variety of AVRs was in the mix as well. I've driven most of the Polk RT series with this gear, beginning with RT1000p's, through RT2000ps and ending up with the RT5000 series.

I've enjoyed the hobby since the late 70's, and owned a broad array of amps - and listened to a LOT more. Oh, and I'm also an electrical engineer (mechanical, too.) That should not imply, however, that my ears are any better than yours. Or, more importantly, that what I hear should (or think I do) sway your opinions. What matters is what YOU hear!

I was very pleased with the Emo gear that I owned, and did not sell it because of sound quality or reliability issues. I sold it to consolidate rack space into a 7 x 200wpc footprint.

My advice to anyone considering an audio gear purchase: Listen to it in your own room if possible and decide what you hear. Emo has figured out that they will sell much more gear if they overcome two of the most common concerns potential buyer have when buying audio gear over the net. What if I don't like the sound? And, what if there are reliability problems? Their business model allows a 30 day in-home trial with a money back return policy. They also offer a 5-year transferable warranty. Concerns solved.

Don't let others tell you that 'unobtanium' will make the latest gizmo sound amazing - for a premium price. Many detractors criticise Emo gear because it doesn't sound as "insert audio snob term here" as "insert gear brand costing much more here." You are only risking the cost of return shipping when auditioning Emo gear in your listening environment. Let your ears decide what they like - and ignore the opinions of others.

tonyb

rtart wrote: »

Let your ears decide what they like - and ignore the opinions of others.

Couldn't agree more, thats why we encourage people to get their ears on a variety of gear. Once you do that, the comparisons become easy to decipher......without the audio snobbery.

leroyjr1

tonyb wrote: »

Well my friend, what does RTI stand for ? It's a reference theater improved speaker. Nowhere does it claim to be a musical monster. You could use them for both but HT is their main function. Matter of fact, when someone wants a music first speaker, we push them towards the LSI series first, and for good reason.

Emo tends to claim reference quality sound from their amps....musically. It's a matter of manufacturer claims and reality matching up.

I've personally subscribed to the theory that when looking for speakers to do double duty in a HT/2 channel system, look for a speaker designed for music first and chances are you won't be let down in the HT realm. If you go after a HT first speaker, you may be less than satisfied with the musical aspect. May not be always the case, but more so than not. Same with amps in a combination system. Look for a musical amp first, and your HT experience will shine too.

So the concern is the description of the company's products? What's reference quality? There's no set standard, everything in the hobby is subjective. So if they described it as entry level the folks around here would feel better and stop bashing? I for one am not a Emotiva fan but I'd never have a closed mind like others and bash a company's products just because it doesn't fit my lifestyle. I've seen some bad **** $30k systems with Emotiva products and folks seem to be very happy and that's all that matters.

grimmace19

I heard that emo doesn't secure their binding posts very well and they just snap off...

Overall, my UMC-1 has been fine after a firmware update when I got it used. A decent improvement over my marantz sr7002 that I was using for a while. Would I like to upgrade? Sure would, but the next in line is the marantz av7005 or newer 7701 and to me it's not worth the coin right now. Enjoy the journey.

bobsauto49

rtart wrote: »

Well, at the expense of adding to the chaos here. Thought i'd post my experiences with Emo to help out the OP in his quest for facts.

I have owned Emo XPA-3, XPA-5, and UPA-2 amps. I kept them for over two years. I actually made money on them when I sold them, but that, of course was not my intent. (I bought them during one of Emo's sales, and price increases made up for depreciation.) I replaced a stack of Carver M500t amps with them.

My separates gear progression in my HT began with a Sony TAE-9000es paired with two TAN-9000es amps, then Yamaha M series amps, then Carver. On to Emo and through ATI 2007 to a Sherbourn 7-2100 (both 7x200wpc). A variety of AVRs was in the mix as well. I've driven most of the Polk RT series with this gear, beginning with RT1000p's, through RT2000ps and ending up with the RT5000 series.

I've enjoyed the hobby since the late 70's, and owned a broad array of amps - and listened to a LOT more. Oh, and I'm also an electrical engineer (mechanical, too.) That should not imply, however, that my ears are any better than yours. Or, more importantly, that what I hear should (or think I do) sway your opinions. What matters is what YOU hear!

I was very pleased with the Emo gear that I owned, and did not sell it because of sound quality or reliability issues. I sold it to consolidate rack space into a 7 x 200wpc footprint.

My advice to anyone considering an audio gear purchase: Listen to it in your own room if possible and decide what you hear. Emo has figured out that they will sell much more gear if they overcome two of the most common concerns potential buyer have when buying audio gear over the net. What if I don't like the sound? And, what if there are reliability problems? Their business model allows a 30 day in-home trial with a money back return policy. They also offer a 5-year transferable warranty. Concerns solved.

Don't let others tell you that 'unobtanium' will make the latest gizmo sound amazing - for a premium price. Many detractors criticise Emo gear because it doesn't sound as "insert audio snob term here" as "insert gear brand costing much more here." You are only risking the cost of return shipping when auditioning Emo gear in your listening environment. Let your ears decide what they like - and ignore the opinions of others.

Best post I've read on this subject,along with Cathy's!
I owned Emo gear,an XPA-5,and it was a substantial improvement over my Onk! I got lucky and found a B&K Ref 2220 locally for a good deal,and bought it to do some AB testing!
I liked the B&K better,Slighty smoother,and not as bright,not to say the Emo was junk,cause it wasnt! I sold the Emo for only $100 less than I paid for it,and am glad I got to try it!
I would recomend to any who wants to go from a reciever,to a sep. amp to give it a try! As stated before,30 day money back trial,and a Great warranty,not much to lose! Everyones ears are different! Which is why I cant understand why there's such arguing over what sounds good/great/better/or worse! With deals like Emo offers,take a leap,try it,if you dont like it,send it back,and try something else next time! Its OK if you like it,and someone else doesn't,and vice-versa! Thats why this is a Journey!
Years back,4 buddies and I drove from WI to SC to a Nascar race! It took us 3 days to drive there,and 3 days to drive back! We futzed around at different Hooter's in several different towns! We had more fun on the way down,and on the way back,than we did at the race! If we would have flown there,I wouldn't have some very fond memories that i do right now! Its all about the jouney! Good Day, Rob

PubFiction

I stopped into this thread looking for ideas, been contemplating an amp for an Lsi 5 channel setup. 9x3 15x2

I wanted to make a couple points. Alot of people knock Chinese quality, one poster even mentioned paying close attention for 20 years. But if that poster was honest, he should have pointed out the incredibly obvious thing about Chinese quality over the last 20 years, it has been going up. Now a long time ago people said the same thing about Japan, Korea, etc.. Old stereotypes die hard but the fact is each of those countries not only progressed to meeting USA / German standards, they surpassed them in areas they focused on, so much so they literally crushed many of our industries. Cheaper, better faster, the triple constraints were shattered. No one in the USA makes displays any more and half the other quality products we buy because we cannot compete even though wages in those countries have come up to our own.

So the question is why is this? Well you need a combination of environmental factors to make really good products, you need people willing to work, typically this means young, you need the proper government environment and support, you need enough spare cash to try and fail many times, and most importantly you need experience. And you can check everyone of those items off on the Chinese list, the experience being the last one coming into play. We call this shop floor innovation, its where the people actually making the products see the painfully obvious issues that the engineer and management cannot from 2000 miles away. The Chinese get all their investment from yours truly, and now they are cleaning up house because they have the latest state of the art facilities and tools for production, and money to build as well as people and a government support system. And the USA has none of it in many sectors.

There are tons of sectors where you simply cannot buy a product of good quality anywhere but Asia because they have all this. Now you can argue one way or the other that China is there already or is not, but you cannot argue that they are on the way their very soon.

back on topic the question is, if you get what you pay for then who makes an AMP of = or better quality than Emotiva for the same or lower price? If there are none, well then Emotiva is giving you what you pay for and maybe alot more.

In reality you don't really get what you pay for most of the time either. Because for every person out there trying to build a good product and sell it at a reasonable price, their are 10 people who figured out its far more effective to use various forms of manipulation to sell a product. The entire dealer network in the USA is great example of that, where dealers will only stock the most profitable speakers or products, they do not have the customers interest in mind. Having worked in business and dealt with this as well as others I know full well that finding a product of good quality and value is hard, simply because such companies cannot afford to advertise, make dealers happy, etc... But in fact those companies do exist and produce great products. Finding them is the trick, cause trust me the guys trying to rip you off can spend alot more time fluffing reviews, advertising, attacking etc...

And finally sometimes alot of the quality associated with top end products is simply uneeded fluff. If you are willing to pay an extra thousand dollars to have your amp a particular color great, but to alot of people we dont need it.

Anyhow the key take home point is that experience and state of the art equipment is really important in production. And as of now the Chinese are getting all that. And at the very same time most American companies have learned the ropes how now to better write contracts to require quality standards over the decades.

sponger

PubFiction wrote: »

we cannot compete even though wages in those countries have come up to our own. .......

The entire dealer network in the USA is great example of that, where dealers will only stock the most profitable speakers or products, they do not have the customers interest in mind. Having worked in business and dealt with this as well as others I know full well that finding a product of good quality and value is hard, simply because such companies cannot afford to advertise, make dealers happy, etc...

I enjoyed reading your comment. Thank you for posting it. It was useful. However, I just wanted to follow up on a couple of your points...

The average wage in China is currently somewhere around $1/hr - far below the US standard of living. This is a due to a number of factors including, but not limited to: a deflated currency, serious overpopulation issues leading to a labor surplus, and the total absence of a political voice for the general public. Let's put it this way: If every wage in the US was lowered to the federal minimum wage, that would still amount to more than all of the wages paid in China despite China's population being several times larger than our own.

Include factors like the known slave-like conditions in those factories that have led to mass suicides, and I think it's fair to say that it isn't a case of a straight competition between the US and its 3rd world country competitors.

Also....stocking only the most profitable products is what's known as proper retail supply chain management. "Thinking of the customers" and "stocking only the most profitable products" are not mutually exclusive concepts; they are one in the same. If selection has dwindled in US retail establishments, then it isn't because they've forgotten how to put the customer first. Instead, it's that they've adapted to a new sales environment which includes the internet.

But, I thank you again for your contribution. I enjoy reading other peoples' points of view. I do not consider any specific view within this thread to be wholly right or wrong.

F1nut

The lengths folks will go to in justifying entry level gear boggles the mind. Do you try to justify your Honda Civic to the owner of a TOTL Mercedes? I don't think so. What makes you think audio gear is any different? It's not.

Toolfan66

And the Dared SL2000A Pre???

It's the cheapest looking built piece of gear I have had my hands on, and you have to spend as much if not twice as much on tubes to have it sound good on all levels..

Emotiva crushes Dared when it comes to build quality but other then that they are in the same playing field of entry level IMO..

headrott

PubFiction wrote: »

I stopped into this thread looking for ideas, been contemplating an amp for an Lsi 5 channel setup. 9x3 15x2

I wanted to make a couple points. Alot of people knock Chinese quality, one poster even mentioned paying close attention for 20 years. But if that poster was honest, he should have pointed out the incredibly obvious thing about Chinese quality over the last 20 years, it has been going up. Now a long time ago people said the same thing about Japan, Korea, etc.. Old stereotypes die hard but the fact is each of those countries not only progressed to meeting USA / German standards, they surpassed them in areas they focused on, so much so they literally crushed many of our industries. Cheaper, better faster, the triple constraints were shattered. No one in the USA makes displays any more and half the other quality products we buy because we cannot compete even though wages in those countries have come up to our own.

So the question is why is this? Well you need a combination of environmental factors to make really good products, you need people willing to work, typically this means young, you need the proper government environment and support, you need enough spare cash to try and fail many times, and most importantly you need experience. And you can check everyone of those items off on the Chinese list, the experience being the last one coming into play. We call this shop floor innovation, its where the people actually making the products see the painfully obvious issues that the engineer and management cannot from 2000 miles away. The Chinese get all their investment from yours truly, and now they are cleaning up house because they have the latest state of the art facilities and tools for production, and money to build as well as people and a government support system. And the USA has none of it in many sectors.

There are tons of sectors where you simply cannot buy a product of good quality anywhere but Asia because they have all this. Now you can argue one way or the other that China is there already or is not, but you cannot argue that they are on the way their very soon.

back on topic the question is, if you get what you pay for then who makes an AMP of = or better quality than Emotiva for the same or lower price? If there are none, well then Emotiva is giving you what you pay for and maybe alot more.

In reality you don't really get what you pay for most of the time either. Because for every person out there trying to build a good product and sell it at a reasonable price, their are 10 people who figured out its far more effective to use various forms of manipulation to sell a product. The entire dealer network in the USA is great example of that, where dealers will only stock the most profitable speakers or products, they do not have the customers interest in mind. Having worked in business and dealt with this as well as others I know full well that finding a product of good quality and value is hard, simply because such companies cannot afford to advertise, make dealers happy, etc... But in fact those companies do exist and produce great products. Finding them is the trick, cause trust me the guys trying to rip you off can spend alot more time fluffing reviews, advertising, attacking etc...

And finally sometimes alot of the quality associated with top end products is simply uneeded fluff. If you are willing to pay an extra thousand dollars to have your amp a particular color great, but to alot of people we dont need it.

Anyhow the key take home point is that experience and state of the art equipment is really important in production. And as of now the Chinese are getting all that. And at the very same time most American companies have learned the ropes how now to better write contracts to require quality standards over the decades.

First let me point out that I am not "knocking" Chinese made gear, I am simply pointing out my personal experiences with Chinese made equipment and people I know personally and their experiences and what I hear reported (example: Chinese made toys containing lead, Chinese made tires blowing out, killing the driver and passengers, coffee makers that stop working in 2 to 3 months, etc.etc.). I am simply stating what I have seen in 18 to 20 years of paying attention to Chinese manufactured items. I have no inherent bias against Chinese made items. If you think I am pointing out stereotypes you had better read again where I included Japan in the list of quality made items. Japan progressed to making higher quality electronics in less than 20 years. 20 years have gone by for China and despite you trying to put a "high quality standard" spin on the Chinese quality (in general) it simply does not ring true. Is there Chinese made gear that are better quality? You bet, but as I stated they are the exception not the standard. To compare Chinese made electronic equipment to German, U.K., USA and Japanese made electronic gear is a joke. There is no comparison (from my experience with Chinese made gear compared to German, U.K., Japanese, and USA made gear). I also have no bias against Emotiva gear, and people can buy what they want (as I stated in my last post). I am simply stating that (in general) Chinese made gear does not equal the quality of USA, German, Japanese, and U.K. made electronic gear (and items in general for that matter). Take or leave what I say. That's for every person to decide. All I am saying is that Chinese made items are not made to the same quality as the countries I mentioned above. I know it's a fact, I've experienced it first hand many many times over the last 18 to 20 years, period. If you buy from China (in general), good luck.

steveinaz

Emotiva is a good value product---but they are a value product. If you're the average listener and just enjoy a step up from the everyday equipment, it will work for you just fine. If you're a brandy-snifter, smoking jacket type; you might want to go a little more high end. Also keep in mind that if you go "used" you may find better products at the same price levels.

Think of it this way, you can buy Hyundai's top-of-the-line car, but it still isn't a Mercedes.