Aragon 4004mkii vs Aragon 8008

James Zep

Hi,

I guess a lot of discussion has going trough on these two, but I didn?t find two much on the forum. Both are rated similarly and share a lot of specs.
I have to choose.
Which one would you recommend and why?

Thank you.

cnh

I can't tell you. As you point out the specs are similar. What I do know is that at some point Klipsch bought that company out and you might want to check out what year that was because I do believe the 4004 is an earlier model.

Some people claim the Klipsch buyout was not a good thing. Others say that Klipsch did not mess with the early Aragon models much. That it was much later that they started to interfere in a negative way?

Perhaps someone else can chime in. In any case, Aragons were nice amps!

cnh

nwohlford

Which version of the 8008? If you want to answer the Klipsch or Mondial question, you can check out the Indy Audio Labs website: http://www.indyaudiolabs.com/aragon-legacy-products.aspx. My guess is the main difference is that the 8008 added balanced inputs. The Klipsch version of the 8008 also added a different exterior design. As far as whether there were any significant changes inside the amp, I would check with the Indy Audio Labs people.

pitdogg2

they are both very similar. From what i understand the 8008 has more output devices more closely matched, better heatsinks and a much bigger torid. then we can get into suffix'es BB, MkII and ST just as the 4004.
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpoweramps/562/index.html
google is your friend ther is much out there on this

James Zep

It is the 8008BB.
Can someone give me anything else?

nwohlford

James Zep wrote: »

It is the 8008BB.
Can someone give me anything else?

As pitdogg2 noted, they should be mostly incremental changes between versions. I think to get a real answer beyond guessing you would probably have to contact support at Indy Audio Labs (http://www.indyaudiolabs.com/contact-us.aspx).

headrott

I own the 8008bb. It is a slightly analytical sounding amp. Slightly cold, but not too bad. It has massive amounts of power and can drive almost any speaker quite easily. The 8008bb has what some call "robo-bass". The bass is so tightly well controlled it sounds somewhat mechanical. I would compare it to (most) Krell amps if you've heard one of theirs. The Aragon 8008bb is not quite as analytical or "robo-bass" sounding as a Krell, but too much for my taste, so I bought a Pass Labs Aleph 30.

The main difference between the 4004 and the 8008bb is the fact that the 8008bb has balanced inputs and the amount of power the 8008bb has is much much greater than the 4004. I definately recommend the Mondial version opposed to the Klipsch (IMO).

What other gear would you be using the amp with?

larry777

The 8008 BB has two toroidal power transformers sitting one on top of the other putting out 1.1Kva each. Both channels have 2 power supply capacitors rated at 35000 uf. This amp also has 12 Bipolar output devices per channel which results in hugh impulse power ( Like a startrack rating of Warp 9 ). I would definately get the 8008BB if I had the pick.

James Zep

Headrott, you said "the amount of power the 8008bb has is much much greater than the 4004".
Are you talking of the 4004 or the 4004 mkii? Anyway I thought the three models were similar power regarding. How many ouput transistor has the 4004 mkii? 12 also?
I also read that they use different type of transistor, with the same specs but a different sounding.
Don't forget I'm trying to pick between 4004 mkii and the 8008BB.

By the way, both has exactly same depth at the base of the gabinet, I mean not consedering the 8008BB bewel face

Thank you all. I hope you ccan give me more info.

Jetmaker737

Good info on Aragon amps here:

http://reviews.ebay.com/Classic-Aragon-Amps-A-primer?ugid=10000000001149810

I asked the Indy Audio Labs guys about the 8008 MkII (Klipsch) amp which I own and they said it was identical internally to the 8008BB.

headrott

larry777 wrote: »

The 8008 BB has two toroidal power transformers sitting one on top of the other putting out 1.1Kva each. Both channels have 2 power supply capacitors rated at 35000 uf. This amp also has 12 Bipolar output devices per channel which results in hugh impulse power ( Like a startrack rating of Warp 9 ). I would definately get the 8008BB if I had the pick.

This is correct and accurate.

James Zep wrote: »

Headrott, you said "the amount of power the 8008bb has is much much greater than the 4004".
Are you talking of the 4004 or the 4004 mkii? Anyway I thought the three models were similar power regarding. How many ouput transistor has the 4004 mkii? 12 also?
I also read that they use different type of transistor, with the same specs but a different sounding.
Don't forget I'm trying to pick between 4004 mkii and the 8008BB.

By the way, both has exactly same depth at the base of the gabinet, I mean not consedering the 8008BB bewel face

Thank you all. I hope you ccan give me more info.

The 4004 AND 4004 mkII both use 8 output transistors rather than 12. The 4004 and 4004 mkII have (don't quote me on this but I believe) 24,000uF output caps (opposed to the 35,000uF caps in the 8008bb). Plus the transformer sizes are bigger in the 8008bb opposed to the 4004 and 4004mkII. The current delivery is much much greater in the 8008bb and I recommend that one opposed to either the 4004 or the 4004 mkII.

I have never heard the 4004 or 4004 mkII so I cannot compare it to the 8008bb as far as sound goes, sorry.

Again, what other equipment will you be using the amp with?

James Zep

The idea was using this Aragon with a Krell KRC3 preamp and JBL 4430 speakers.
But it appears that somebody is interested in buying my Acoustic Research AR90, so I might get some extra cash and in this case I’ll take a look to other deal around like a Krell KSA 250 and especially a Pass Lab X250.5 (this actually would be my first choice)… And this extra cash also allows me to seek for an 8008BB rather than a 4004 mkii…

So I’ll see…

larry777

Sounds like a good plan....

Polkie2009

The 8008BB always seem to be the amp model most people are wanting in the Aragon line and are willing to pay the premium price on a used one.

headrott

James Zep wrote: »

The idea was using this Aragon with a Krell KRC3 preamp and JBL 4430 speakers.
But it appears that somebody is interested in buying my Acoustic Research AR90, so I might get some extra cash and in this case I’ll take a look to other deal around like a Krell KSA 250 and especially a Pass Lab X250.5 (this actually would be my first choice)… And this extra cash also allows me to seek for an 8008BB rather than a 4004 mkii…

So I’ll see…

The Krell KSA 250 and Aragon 8008bb have a similar sound. Both very analytical, with every speck of detail coming through. They both have very deep, very tight bass. They both have a somewhat bright high end, but not the worst I've heard. They both have a dark sounding midrange without a lot of warmth and is slightly recessed compared to the high end and bass. They both can drive virtually any speaker out there with ease (although the Krell is a little more powerful than the Aragon). I recommend some tubes with the Aragon to give a little warmth to the sound. that is my opinion of course, however. A Krell KRC3 pre-amp and Aragon 8008bb will definately be a little bright (IMO), without too much warmth to it. The detail will be very nice however if you like a lot of detail. I haven't heard the JBL 4430 speakers so i can't say how the pre and amp will work with those.

What kind of sound are you looking for?

James Zep

You’re right Headrott…

I was also afraid of the bright sounding from a mix between Krell and Aragon or a whole Krell system. But it appears that the KRC3 is not really as bright as I thought and a Stereophile review on the KSA 250 didn’t really emphasize such a harsh tone for that amp. I should try to really know.
So it might work after all.

JBL 4430 are not bright, but they do have kind of forward sounding. However I have bettered their crossover wit top component which give them a bit of extra mellow without compromising their great “in your face details style”.

Anyway as I said before, a much more warmth Pass Lab would the best….

By the way you said “(although the Krell is a little more powerful than the Aragon)”.
Well, be sure that a KSA 250 has a lot more power than any Aragon, a lot more, maybe too much for my AC line!

Thank you, tahnk you all.

James Zep

You?re right Headrott?

I was also afraid of the bright sounding from a mix between Krell and Aragon or a whole Krell system. But it appears that the KRC3 is not really as bright as I thought and a Stereophile review on the KSA 250 didn?t really emphasize such a harsh tone for that amp. I should try to really know.
So it might work after all.

JBL 4430 are not bright, but they do have kind of forward sounding. However I have bettered their crossover wit top component which give them a bit of extra mellow without compromising their great ?in your face details style?.

Anyway as I said before, a much more warmth Pass Lab would the best?.

By the way you said ?(although the Krell is a little more powerful than the Aragon)?.
Well, be sure that a KSA 250 has a lot more power than any Aragon, a lot more, maybe too much for my AC line!

Thank you, tahnk you all.

cnh

Glad you found a good combo for those speakers. Actually if you would have just gone with TUBES you'd never have to worry about those JBLs being forward or bright. It's a simple, straightforward solution to that problem.

But, things look OK, anyway!

Enjoy!

cnh

James Zep

I didn't find yet. I'm still waiting for the seller to define a price for his Pass Lab X250.5...
Cnh, you mean tubes for a preamp? Because it couldn?t be for a power as I need at least 100 watts per channel.
I use to have a Melos Sha 1 upgraded. It was pretty good?

harley52

Klipsch never had anything to do with the 4xxx or 8xxx series of Aragon amps. It was the 2xxx series they fooled with.

Aragon8008

8008 BB is best best amp by far to ever have the aragon name, it is still sought after 20 years after they were discontinued...it is the baby krell

honestaquarian

@steve544
You are not allowed to sell on the forum until you have 100 posts.@kennethswauger could ban you.

honestaquarian

You should also check the dates of the posts as this thtead is four years old!!

SCompRacer

headrott wrote: »

The Krell KSA 250 and Aragon 8008bb have a similar sound. Both very analytical,

KSA 250, I disagree on analytical and bright. More like neutral and accurate in that it doesn't add gooey, sticky, slobbery, image robbing excess warmth. I know lots of folks use the A word, but I think they need to increase their audio vocabulary...

Also, there are three versions of the KSA 250, depends on which one you hear. Most favor the high bias, room heater 175 degree at the sink sound.