LSi M703 placing and stand

cusco69

Hi All,
Just got the e406 in place this afternoon and ran it for almost 3 hours now. The 703s are now able to have some air in the highs, but 2 things still not up to my expection. Still could not get the sound stage properly and the base seems to have lots of resonance. I think its my room condition. My speakers are 40cm from the front wall, above them are the windows, to the right there is a 2.5m wall and the opening to the dining room. To the left is the 2.2m main entrance with glass doors, and a window to complete the wall. Where I sit to listen is a door to the bedroom. The living room size is 4.25m x 4.5m and the ceiling is 3.3m. How could I improve on the accoustics to help reduce the resonance and bring up the sound from these speakers? I have thick curtains on all the windows but not the glass door.
I am a 100% 2 channel guy. I do not even have a tv at home. I listens at very low level volumes (almost always at 7 to 9 O'clock on the dial depending on the time of the day) except that one instant when I pop the speaker (tsi 100) due to frustration. I could trade this back for the M705s or M707s taking a $200 knock off if that's the solution.
I know the "room" is in a "mess", not the best for any serious listening, but I am sure there must be something I can do to improve the situation. Need help from you experts here.

Face

It's hard to imagine your room from the description. Try moving them away from boundaries and play with the amount of toe. Experiment with anywhere from zero toe to the speakers crossing paths in front of you. The more toe, the less influence the room has.

cusco69

Hi Face
Thanks I will try it and also come back with a sketch tomorrow and see if there are other things that can be done.

cusco69

Hi,
Here is the layout of my living room. As you can see, its a mess of "un favorable" scenarios. Too many openings, windows, glass doors, ceramic tiled floors, and all concrete and brick walls.

Hope some one can come up with some ideas for me to start working towards. Thanks to all your contributions so far and for the coming ideas Thanks a thousand.

cusco69

Hi All
I had just place an order for the LSi M705. I am a polkie and want to make this workout in my new house regargless of cost. Please give me the Support. I need all the suggestions to make this work. Thanks a thousand.

cusco69

Hi
I was looking at material for sound proofing to improve my room acoustic with what is avsilable here in my small tone. I have plaster board, gymsum board and styrofoams avaviable here. I was thinking of using fabric paintings wraped around these material and mount it on the walls. Anyone have experience or know if these materials will help in the room accoustic??

F1nut

Of the 3 materials listed, I think the Styrofoam would be the best choice.

cusco69

Thanks F1,
I am currently looking for some nice and big posters to wrap round these styrofoams so that the room does not turn "ugly". How about the glass doors, what can I do to reduce the reflection on them? Would a thick curtain like velvet help?

Dawgfish

The curtain should definitely help out. I would also look at putting some area rugs down on the tile floor.

cusco69

Dawgfish
Thanks.
Yes, thats in my list of items for Christmas shopping.

cusco69

Hi All,
The M705 has been running in for 30 hiurs now. The sound stage is better then the M703s from my ears. I had the chance to audition the AE Reference 1, Reference 2 and Radiance 3 with the M705, and IMHO would say the Reference 2 wins on sound stage and slightly more defined voice ( the R2 have you hear the singer in front of you but the M705 seems to move the singer at least 10' behind), but the M705 has better voice texture and sounded more natural. The R1 and Radiance 3 being too bright and over emphasis. The mid is very close for R1, R2 and M705 with the Radiance 3 a little to bright here. However the low is clearly the M705, crisp and clean bass with the R1 and R2 lacking due to the size of the "box" but the Radiance 3 is very boomy.
I had added the new speaker cables (Magnum Hybrid 10), styrofoam on the front, side and rear walls. The speakers are 2' from the front wall, and 6' apart with my listening position 7' from the spaekers and 5' from the rear wall. Now if I keep the volume at around -30 to -20dbs, the sound stage clarrity is superb. But once I crank up the volume, the resonnance starts to be noticeable again. Oh yes, I have not got the carpets yet, maybe that would help.
I had also replaced the TSi100 with RTi A1. I found the A1 to be bright like the AE Radiance3, hope it would be ok once I wall mount it.

leroyjr1

Got any pics?

cusco69

Hi,
Its all WIP as some styrofoams are just placed in the approximate areas for trial whilst some are stick to the wall with doublesided tape. I am still looking for pictures to attach to these so that my other partner can accept. I also place the foams on the glass door if I am listening a little louder in private. The bedroom door wil be closed and the window opened when listening. Err, its such a chore, but that's life, till I can find a dedicated room.

One note: I have to toe the speaker to cross behind me, between me and the rear wall to get best result. I also think the M703 I got is faulty as the sound stage is so different from the M705, not like most of you in the forum described.

Drenis

What a classy looking space. How do you like the sound of the 705's?

Dawgfish

That is one sweet looking room/set-up! I think an area rug would probably help out a lot as you are getting a lot of reflections with the tile floors. I agree with your assesment that your 703s may be faulty. They should work just fine in that size room with no soundstage issues.

cusco69

The sound is clean, crisp and voice from singers are most natural compared with all the speakers I suditioned. However the SE Reference 2 has much wider sound stage than the M705s but could not extend down to produce the kind of bass the 705s produces. Its a trade off as I want to stick with pure 2 channel without the subs. As you can see I do not even have the tv. I hope its the right choice. But for now I'll have to wait for the carpet or rug to see how much improvement it can produce. By the way thanks for all the contributions, suggestions and compliments received so far. More suggestions welcomed. Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year to all Polk guys out there.

cusco69

By the way, a stupid question here, - The amp has 2 speaker out puts (A and B with 170wpc both driven in parallel), if I were to connect them to the speakers, - A to high and B to low frequecy and remove the jumper provided, would that be called "Bi-wiring"??Sorry for being a noob here? Would there be any difference to the sound quality or damage to the speakers?

Dawgfish

Most of the time with an amp that has A and B outputs you can only use one at the time via the speaker selector switch. The A and B function is there so you can hook up two different sets of speakers to your integrated with different sound characteristics (i.e. one set of speakers that sounds better with classical/jazz another that sounds better with rock/r&b etc.). Usually though you can only use one or the other at one time.

Bi-wiring would be hoooking two sets of speaker cables to the same set of binding posts (either both on the A binding post or B binding post) and then connecting one of the sets of wires to the high binding posts on your speaker and the other set of wires to the low binding posts of your speaker. Clear as mud right?

cusco69

Hi Dawfish
Yap clear as mud. However my amp could power both S&B out at the same time. Then could I use both then?

cusco69

I see no difference with the bi-wiring as you mentioned as the hi-low already are connected. However if we use A-B connection then we have 2 power source going into the speakers. My worry is damage to my new speakers. I read in the other thread about bi-wire vs bi-amp and got more confused. Just trying to learn more here.

Dawgfish

Ok I just read up a little on the Accuphase and you do have the option of selecting A+B running both outputs at the same time. Giving the fact that the Accuphase is a high current, low impedence stable design, I don't think you would have any problems at all using the A+B function to bi-wire your LSiMs. Just make sure you remove the jumpers on the LSiMs. Also you are not going to be pushing 170 wpc to both the highs and lows, thus doubling the power. It's going to split the rated 170 wpc/8ohm between the high and low inputs. I say give it a try.

I have read lots of debates over bi-wiring and if it indeed makes a difference. I was on the fence about it until someone here on the board provided a link on a whitepaper from Vandersteen on the matter. Vandersteen reported positive changes with bi-wiring. They also reported that it is very important to use the same type and length of speaker cables when bi-wiring to keep the soundstaging and imagine the same. After reading that I decided to try it.

I am running dual 8' lengths of Analysis Plus Oval 9 speaker cables on my SRS 2s and I did indeed here positive improvements bi-wiring. The lows became better defined and the mids and highs became smoother. Soundstaging and imaging improved across the board. It made a very noticable improvement in my system.

You brought up the question how does it make a difference hooking it up like I mentioned with the single set of speaker posts on the amp? In the Vandersteen white paper it mentioned that the highs/lows seemed to split at the amp at the speaker post and the highs and lows traveled through their respective cables for better seperation. I'm not sure if that is going on or not, I jus know I can hear a pretty big improvement. The Vandersteen whitepaper also noted that they did not get the same effect when using pre-made biwire speaker cables where you had a single connection on the amp end that split into the hi and low connections on the speaker end. They got the best results using dual runs of the same type/length speaker cables. The fact that you have dual binding posts on your amp and can select A+B will make this much easier. Again I say give it a try.

Oh I just found the Vandersteen link. Scroll about half-way down to the bi-wiring section and enjoy!

http://www.vandersteen.com/vandersteenfaqs.htm

cusco69

Hi Dawgfish
Thanks for the link, its a good read. I will try to get the cables and try the bi-wiring. I cannot find the cable I am using around here, its vdh mc magnum hybrid, thick and flat cable recommended by my speaker shop. It is so much better then my monster clear.
I am happy to read about the toe-in of the speakers. They said that it should NEVER be aimed directly at the listener, which I find it very true. I find the best result for my ststem when the speakers are aimed between me and the rear wall.

Face

Whoever said they should never be toed in directly towards the listener is dead wrong. Granted, not all speakers will sound better this way, but some do. Of the few Sonus Faber setups I've seen and heard, some were toed in directly towards the listener...and these speakers were set up by someone who does this for a living.

cusco69

I guess it boils down to the different makes, the room set up and accoustic treatment. I have 5feet between me and the rear wall and find the best result to have the speaker meeting between me and the rear wall. Of course my listening area does not the right accoustic treatment and I am pin stakingly trying to improve it a step at a time.

Dawgfish

Face wrote: »

Whoever said they should never be toed in directly towards the listener is dead wrong. Granted, not all speakers will sound better this way, but some do. Of the few Sonus Faber setups I've seen and heard, some were toed in directly towards the listener...and these speakers were set up by someone who does this for a living.

Cusco69 was referring to the link I provided in which Vandersteen stated that their speakers should never be toed directly at the listener. I agree everything is different depending on well.....everything. In the case of the toe-in statement they were referring only for Vandersteen speakers.