Hey Doc!

bigsexy1

In your opinion, do you think that the 3803 could drive 12s ok with the receiver's crossover set at 40 HZ (which would include all but the absolute very lowest, deepest, most power sapping bass), or do you think all those drivers would still be too much for the Denon?

Judging from the crossover specs from the website, even if high passed at 80 HZ, the 12s would still be OK as they go from mids to woofs at 120 HZ, whereas the 150s would pretty much be a total waste in that scenario since they go from mids to woofs at 85 HZ.

Dr. Spec

I follow your reasoning on the xo points; you would be using the woofs more on the 12's than the 150's for an 80 Hz xo.

It all depends on the impedance load the AVR will see, and how loud you will push them. Remember, the high pass filter is not a brick wall; it is 12 dB/octave. So the 12's will still see bass below 40 Hz, albeit at a progressively diminishing rate. I really don't see the point in setting the xo that low. It won't help out the AVR that much, and where will you redirect the really deep bass?

For source material without an LFE channel, you are OK to fiddle with the xo. If there is an LFE channel, the 3803 will sum it with the other low passed bass. If you set the xo any lower than 80 Hz, you will lose any bass information above that point. The only way to avoid this is with an AVR that can adjust the xo of the LFE channel separately from any other.

bigsexy1

You know doc, I just realized, when I was driving my 150s at first (albeit very briefly at that) with just a 3802, I had them set to large, but never used them for a movie. Only just used that set up for 2 channel stereo music listening. With the LFE from a movie, I'll bet the 3802 would have shutdown almost immediately, certianly a lot sooner than it did on music. That second day, it drove the 150s set to large for like 10 or 12 hours straight nonstop with a changerful of AC/DC on repeat though. That's still pretty impressive for a receiver, even if wasn't a movie. Just goes to show that Denon's amps are probably even better than I had ever given them credit for. They probably aren't the equal of B&K, HK, Rotel, Sunfire, and NAD, but they probably trump just about every other receiver manufacturer out there right now. Plus, the 3803's amps are supposed to be even a little better than the 3802's was.

40 HZ probably would be ok for music, but not for movies though. I didn't even consider the LFE until you pointed it out. I always think of music first, movies secondary. Still, I think the 12s might be even better than the 8s xed over at 80 hz. What do you think?

Dr. Spec

Remember, DVD-A, SACD, and DTS music also all have an LFE channel. High passing below 80 Hz will do the same thing - you will lose information in the LFE channel.

Do I think the 12 would be better than the 8 high passed at 80 Hz? Yes, but it won't be a slam dunk. For a high pass application, I'd still buy the 8's over the 12's and spend the savings elsewhere.

RVJII

As I just got a pair of 12's can you guys explain this in a bit more basic terms? I've been out of this for quite awhile and am not fully up to speed yet.

BTW: I used to be a huge HK fan until my last one ($1100) about 3 or 4 years ago. I was extremely underwhelmed and really felt that HK had cheapened their product. It turned me off so much that I recently replaced it with a $1500 Onkyo. So far I've been very happy with it. Maybe someday I'll go back to HK but for now I just can't bring myself to give them another chance.