DTS DVD-A disc problem

halo71

I was not sure where to put this thread so here goes. I have the Eagles-Hell Freezes Over DVD-A. It will not play on a Sony, Phillips or Denon player. All capably of playing DTS format with the Denon being SACD as well. All I hear is static.

Anyone got any ideers?

kuntasensei

DVD-A has nothing with do with DTS or SACD. If your player isn't a DVD-A player, it won't play. What model players did you try it on?

tonyb

True....^^^

Gary, when I replied to your PM, I assumed all those players were indeed dvd audio capable. It appears they possibly are not. I spun them on a pioneer universal but seeing your players may be older they may not have a universal format coverage. Oh well, maybe trade it off for a sacd to someone.

halo71

Perhaps I am using the wrong terminology then. All three players can do DTS and DVD Audio.


Denon DVD-2200
Phillips DVD711
Sony (not sure of model number)

kuntasensei

Okay, so is the disc a DTS-CD... or a DVD-A? Should be fairly obvious from the cover. I know that title was released in DTS-CD. Also, are you bitstreaming to your AVR, using analog outs, or decoding to PCM in the player?

pitdogg2

All DVD players will play DVD-A. The only layer you will get is the DD or DTS IF you do not have a DVD-audio capable player. If the player is DVD-A you will now get the high rez DVD-A layer.

halo71

Here is a link to the disc.

http://www.amazon.com/Hell-Freezes-Over-Eagles/dp/B000007R0S

kuntasensei

Okay, that's a DTS CD, not DVD-Audio. To play it, you usually have to set your player to bitstream digital audio to your AVR. What AVR do you have and how is it connected to your player?

halo71

I have it running to a prepro via fiber and coax. My other DTS disc's play fine.

kuntasensei

The only thing I can think is maybe you have some setting on the player that might resample CD audio or something. If you have other DTS-CDs that work, that wouldn't make sense though. Very odd problem indeed.

halo71

Thanks for the help! I am at a loss here.

cfrizz

The Denon should play it. make sure your receiver/prepro is set on dvd, go into the menu setting on the dvd and pick which option you want to play whether dts/pcm etc. if it doesn't do it automatically.

gce

Ok, here's a dumb question...Doesn't a DVD-A have a menu you have to look at and scroll through on the TV screen in order to play or select a song?

pitdogg2

gce wrote: »

Ok, here's a dumb question...Doesn't a DVD-A have a menu you have to look at and scroll through on the TV screen in order to play or select a song?

yes for the most part. I use a Denon 2900 for 2ch SACD/DVD-A player and for my DVD-A's I just hit the play button 2x. I was worried about that very same menu option because typically I don't have a monitor for 2 channel.

but for veiwing you would be correct

halo71

Well I have checked everything I can check. No dice. Anyone got anything to trade? SACD or DTS? If not I may karma it. Or send it to my Dad in Arkansas...if he doesn't already have it.

dudeinaroom

Make sure your dvd player is set to raw for the digital output. Also make sure your pre/pro is set to dts. On some dts-cds the receiver/prepro has to be manually set to dts.

halo71

It's not the pre/pro or the Denon. Other DTS, CD, DVD play perfectly fine except this one. Not sure what the raw setting is?

dudeinaroom

On DTS-cds the header that tells the AVR/Prepro is not always reconized, so you have to, on some equipment, set it to dts. Under the audio settings on the player you should have something like a digital out setting. options are usually LPCM/PCM/Dolby Digital/DTS/RAW. Setting it to raw will pass the digital stream unaffected. Regular CDs or DVDs with DTS, or DTS will paly fine, some just have slight issues with dts-cds. The players will see it as a regular cd and automatically try to decode it, and send the encoded digital signal as a PCM Stream. Also if you are using the analog outputs will put out nothing but digital noise as it decodes it the same way it does a normal cd and you end up hearing the raw DTS signal which sounds like digital noise. It took me some fiddling around when I made my own DTS-cd to get them to play right on my sony. My first mistake was using the analog outputs. Can't remeber weather it was PCM or LPCM that would work on the player as a digital output setting. These disc are basically a standard cd with a DTS track wrapped in a (L)PCM stream.

halo71

I do not see those settings on the Denon player at all. The Denon is pretty basic. Basic settings I guess. SACD/DTS is very new to me.

dudeinaroom

I'm trying to find an owners manual for it.

dudeinaroom

The only settings I saw for that player are in the menu under audio and they are pcm and normal, you would want it set to normal

If you use the analog outputs stereo or 5.1(left right, or left, right, center, sub, surround left, surround right) all you will get is static. You have to use either a coax, or fiber optic digital connection. # 25 OR 26

You may have to force the pre/pro into dts mode. Even though CD/SACD/DVD/DVDA play fine with DTS or Dolby, this is not a standard disc with standard DTS. Do you have the remote for the unit? Any one of those units should be able to pass the digital signal on to the pre/pro, and the pre/pro should be able to decode it. Does the Pre/Pro have DTS and or a DD/Dolby indicator? Do they light up when playing a normal DVD?

halo71

Thanks Dude. I presently have the Denon hooked up via fiber, have tried coax but still didn't work. The pre/pro is Dolby Digital, no DTS settings. Keep in mind it decodes other DTS disc fine. I do not have the remote for the Denon. Yes the DD indicator lights when playing a regular DVD.

dudeinaroom

Okay, if the pre/pro does not do dts then that's the problem. The only way you will get DTS from your players is via the analog outputs if it has a DTS decoder. <<<< This more than likely will not work with a DTS-CD as the player sees it as a regular cd and tries to decode it as such. DVDs that say DTS on them also have a Dolby Digital track. Buy default most players play the first audio track and the DTS track is usually at least the third. If you are watching a DTS encoded disc and there is no dts indicator lit up on either the player or the pre/pro then you are not hearing DTS. Next time you watch a DVD w/DTS I'll bet the Dolby indicator is lit. What pre/pro are you using?

halo71

You may be on to something! The Foreigner disc is DVD-Audio, it plays fine. It does not say DTS. The Queen (A Night At The Opera) says DVD-Audio AND DTS, it plays fine. In DVD-Audio I suppose. The Eagles (Hell Freezes Over) is just DTS. Does not have DVD-Audio track I guess. And hence my pre/pro (older model Sony DD) does not decode DTS and the Eagles disc does not have DVD-Audio tracks. THAT is the reason! Thanks Dude! guess I shoulda looked a little more at them first.

As you may tell by now I am still a little confused with the DVD-Audio, DTS, SACD etc etc formats! :redface:

Damn I need to cough up the cash to buy Bill's AVR.

dudeinaroom

I'd go with another pre/pro. On your DVDAs you are probally only getting the dolby audio tracks as well, and missing the DVDA part which is ppcm, it's a meridian loss-less codec and is higher resolution than the DVD portion of the disc. That player down samples the DVDA information through the digital outputs, the only way to get full resolution is to use the analog outputs. I don't know all there is to know about the Digital audio discs, but I do know a decent amount. I have done a lot of dolby and dts audio mixing as well as making my own dvda and dts cd/dvds. Glad I could give you a little insight.

gce

halo71 wrote: »

As you may tell by now I am still a little confused with the DVD-Audio, DTS, SACD etc etc formats! :redface:

I had to laugh at your comment only because I just got into DVD-Audio, DTS, SACD etc etc formats too! So just to confuse you more I just got a copy of The Eagles (Hell Freezes Over) on XRCD and to my surprise it sounds really good! There's just to many formats out there...hard to keep up even if we've just jumped into the game. :razz:

halo71

XRCD? :rolleyes: I am just now realizing the difference in DVD-A and DTS damnit! lol


Thanks to all that contributed info in this thread! Getting a new pre/pro that will decode these formats may be a while. Recommendations? Cheap ones?

Broke as usual, then the wife gets a $185 speeding ticket last week!

halo71

Okay, now I am on the right path I think. One more question(s)....and probably a dumb one at that. To get DTS...I am guessing I have to run 5.1 component cables from the player to the avr? I hooked up the fiber and the Eagles disc now plays right. I have not hooked up the surround speakers yet. Gotta drag them outta the closet. So the real question is, I won't get 5.1 surround with just the fiber connected right?

please forgive my dumbness....:redface:


And by the way, in case you did not see the other thread. I recently acquired a Onkyo AVR capable of decoding DTS etc.

gdpeck

halo71 wrote: »

Okay, now I am on the right path I think. One more question(s)....and probably a dumb one at that. To get DTS...I am guessing I have to run 5.1 component cables from the player to the avr? I hooked up the fiber and the Eagles disc now plays right. I have not hooked up the surround speakers yet. Gotta drag them outta the closet. So the real question is, I won't get 5.1 surround with just the fiber connected right?

please forgive my dumbness....:redface:


And by the way, in case you did not see the other thread. I recently acquired a Onkyo AVR capable of decoding DTS etc.

I believe you can play DTS in 5.1 over the optical connection. I know I can with my set-up which is an Oppo BDP-83 connected to a Denon AVR 3802. The only caveat is that I had to set the disc player to output Bitstream instead of PCM. The difference will be that through the analog connection the DTS decoding will be done on the player, and through the optical connection it will be done through your AVR. So it's worth hooking both up to see which one you like better.

Once you get it all hooked up, I'm eager to hear your impressions of the Hell Freezes Over DTS-CD. I have it as well, and don't love the way it is mixed. I've listened to it on a couple of systems and it seems that all of the music is mixed to the center channel and there is very little use of the LFE channel. So it sounds really flat compared to the red book CD. Also, the crowd applause between songs is way too loud in the surrounds. This is similar to the red book CD, which I feel has the applause mixed way too loud, but at least with the red book it isn't jarringly loud coming from the back of the room. The bright spot for me of the whole DTS-CD is the inclusion of "Seven Bridges Road" which is amazingly well recorded and mixed. The vocals are eerily real on that track and the surround mix actually heightens the realism for me. In fact that one track is worth the price of the whole DTS-CD for me.

dudeinaroom

You should be good to go with the fiber. Using the 5.1 on the player should give you nothing but static as the player will see it as a regular cd and decode it as such even though the disc is encoded in DTS. Yes you will get 5.1 over the fiber as long as the disc is encoded in 5.1. I have Pink Flyod's DTSOM on a DTS-CD, but it is 4.0. It was a transfer from an analog quadraphonic recording to DTS, and there were only 4 channels to encode.

halo71

Thanks guys!

gdpeck...After hooking up the avr I recently acquired I played that Eagles disc. It was just in stereo, as I dont have the other channel speakers hooked up yet. Been in a 2 channel mood with a prepro/poweramp for a long time now. But it sounded pretty damn good! I agree the audience applause was way to loud! I will probably hook up the other speakers tomorrow sometime. I will try it out and report back.


Dude...even the .1 over fiber? Thought I had read somewhere that the component for the sub would have to be hooked up as well. I am probably wrong there. I've read so much lately I am more confused I think.