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seachange44

Hello all. Let me refresh everyone's memories as to what I have so far.

Orion amp 100X4 rms
two sets of ex3560 polk components 6 1/2
Pioneer head unit

I'm wondering what the next step for my system should be. I'm basically beating myself over the head for buying component speakers. I wish someone would have grabbed me by the neck and said "Look, they don't produce bass, at all, okay!" But the weird thing is, everyone says something different. Even on Cructchfield's product advisor it says that component systems can create forceful bass, I'm pretty sure they used the word forceful. I'm guessing the best thing to do would be to buy a subwoofer. It wouldn't cost that much but I kind of hate my speakers, so I was thinking of switching them with coax speakers that might produce some low end.

Will I be spreading the amp too thin if I cut the components down to 50X4 instead of 100X4?-while sending the other 200 watts to a subwoofer...
Is 200 watts enough for, say, an Alpine 10" type S?

I'm still having the problem of exaggerated high end notes, ie. ear splitting 's' sounds on half of my music. Turning the gain down seemed to help some, I think I'll turn it down even more. It seems that sending 50X4 instead of 100X4 to the speakers would help that problem, although I could be wrong.

I really don't understand why the ex3560's would ask for 100 watts rms, they sound like they're pushing 10 watts.

What would you all do?:)

PoweredByDodge

leave the 100 x 4 on them...

dig up a 200 x 1 amp or something... preferably a 300 - 400 x 1

get a single 10 or 12 " sub that's clean, but powerful. i suggest a momo 2104 -- its 120 bucks at circuit city... or somethin like that... put like 300 watts on it, and call it a day -- take some time to fiddle with everything to get it all balanced right, but it'll do the job.

Keske944

A sub is definitly your next course of action. As for the ear splitting highs I was having the same problem with my MM6's. That was until i took a look at my crossovers and say that all the tweeter levels were set a a +3db. Check and see if you xovers have an adjustment on them. If so take the tweeter level all the way down. Believve me thoes tweeters don't need a lot of gain to produce a lot of highs. They do their job so well you really need to almost turn thoes things off, or repositiong them so they aren't blasking right into your ears. But listen to PBD. That man has tought me most of what I know. BTW Vinny... why didn't you suggest adjusting the xovers??? Do the EX3560's have adjustable xovers like the MM6's???

But yeah get a sub it will make oll the difference in the world. If you don't want to go with the MOMO Polk also has a really nice sub in the GNX series. I had one 10 in my car and it thumped more than you could imagine. Now i'm running two MM10's and hoping my car doesn't get shaken apart.

PoweredByDodge

well adjusting the crossover is all fine and well, but our friend here has pretty much already tried that and has been fiddling with his 2 comp sets for a while now...

u can go "low" witha comp set, lower than a coaxial, but no where near as low as a sub... even a cheapy sub will provide more bass than a comp set... "high speakers" just aren't meant to produce BASSY bass.

seachange44

What's this? You can go low with a comp set?

No one should underestimate how dumb I am most of the time, I'm sure there is something I haven't tried that I should have tried right off the bat.

From my experience so far, I have the amp flat, high pass and low pass are turned off, and I'm using the EQ on my head unit. At the slightest mention of any kind of bass, the speakers begin to distort, so I don't turn it up, ever, because I don't want to damage the speakers. Should I turn on the low pass, even a little bit? Is there a way to get some usable bass out of the speakers without distortion? I'm just following the guidelines set forth by my installers by keeping the amp flat. I've done some experimentation with the high pass but that was just ugly.

The way the comp set sounds, it seems like it can't handle anything, just the high end of the mid-range. At this point they seem completely pointless. The reason I want to use the amp for double-duty is because money needs to be spread around, my computer needs love too.

sntnsupermen131

i really dont know what to tell you...i can get plenty of bass out of my mm6 components without distortion
maybe the amp?
gain set too high?
i dunno...
-Cody

PoweredByDodge

do you have an adjustable high pass crossover? or is it pre-set at something? like when u switch it on - does it just auto set itself or does it have a dial?

if its got a dial - then put it on high pass and set it to about 70 hertz.

if its preset and not adjustable, you can buy an F-mod crossover that plugs into the RCA line for like 25 bucks...

u can feesibly go down to 60 hertz, but try starting at 70... give it like a 3db bass boost on the head at like 100 hertz... trebble to say 1 or 2 db boost at 12.5 k hz...

if you've got a BBE, hit it up at 1/3 potential - if not - try the adjustable "loudness" at 1/3 or "tight"...

that's a place to start... if all goes to hell, drive to buffalo, i "fixy it" and all will be well

PoweredByDodge

also - here's the deal with "flat" on the xover -- when u go with flat, you're sending 20 and 40 hertz and basically **** below 60 hz to your comp set... now a coaxial hates anything below 70 when running free air (like in a door - any non-sealed enclosure), a component dislikes below 70, hates below 60 ... long story short those lower bass signals will cause the speaker to distort -- once you cross it over it'll play louder, clearer, and crisper and still produce decent "low mid bass" but never BASSSSSS bass.

give it a shot man.

MTXMAN

my mm6's get pretty decent bass... have you considered it being a clipping issue... what is the voltage of your pre-outs and where do you keep your volume (related to max volume) and your gain??

seachange44

My amp has a high pass and low pass crossover built in. You can make adjustments for both the front and rear speakers. I have no idea exactly where my gain is set, although I did turn it down, and I will turn it down even more. The pre-out is 4v. My amp is very difficult to adjust, you have to remove the side cover and run back into the passenger seat every time an adjustment is made to see if it made a difference. The last time I did that I got nowhere, the sound was just louder, high pitched, and quickly distorted the speakers. There is no automatic anything. This amp is probably for a more experienced user which is not me. I'll mess with it tomorrow and see if I can make any progress. I keep the volume very low, if I turn it up even a little they will distort. The bass sounds bangy and nowhere near rich. Are these components just not designed to move air in the low-end, are they strictly mid-range? I've heard a pair of these in circuit city and they were the best ones where, they were able to produce the full range with no problem-not subwoofer bass but certainly enough to satisfy me.

sntnsupermen131

well, it will sound better in circuit city than in a car because of acoustics
why dont you see how much it would cost to get your amps and such adjusted by circuit city?
thatd probably be the easiest route...
-Cody

MTXMAN

I've found the MM6's sound wretched in stores but sweet as hell in cars, kinda breaks the soundroom mold...

Systems

Some suggestions. Where do you have your 6.5's installed? If its in the doors then try either making a baffle out of 1/5" MDF or getting some Dynamat damping material. That will stop a lot of vibration in the door panels from "coloring" the speaker outputs. As far as bass goes, you cant expect a lot from a 6.5. If theyre installed in a door then you dont have a proper enclosure and that will hurt the bass response also. I would agree with some other postings that your best bet is to invest in a sub and an amp. I really like Orion amps so I would suggest getting their 2 channel amp and bridging it. Depending on what kind of car youre driving, if youre driving a hatchback or pickup then 200 watts will be plenty. If youre driving a sedan where the sub will be in the trunk Id go with someting higher. As far as subs go, I like MTX because they are not expensive but are quality subs and put out a lot of db's. I have an Thunder6000 8" in my 02 Ram Quad Cab getting 140 watts from an Alpine 2 channel. I built a .3 ft3 sealed enclosure that sits under the seat and fires down and it puts out plenty of volume for me.

PoweredByDodge

as far as your gain -- set your gain at about 35% to 40% for now... just try it there... that's a good point considered the gear that you've got to work out any sound bugs -- you can work on "sheer volume" later... but leave the gain like 35 - 40% and set the high pass crosover for both the front and rear at like 60 or 70 hertz... try that out.


hey - if u dont give a **** abotu cosmetics - u can get a 160 dollar sub for 35 bucks straight from teh factory.


www.mitekfactoryoutlet.com


i picked up a Thunder 6000 12" 4 ohm sub (250 rms / 500 peak) for 35 bucks... brand new but its cosmetically messed up -- the cone looks like somebody took their fingers, put them on an ink-stamper pad, and put black finger marks all over the cone.

but other than that.. its a brand new 12" mtx 6000 for 35 bucks.

and they've got more of them...

you can also pick up an amp from them that'll power it (like 250 watts x 1 bridged) for like 75 bucks...

here's the amp link -- 260 x 1 at 4 ohms bridged for 75 bucks... http://www.mitekfactoryoutlet.com/products/product.cfm?PN=AMP-215

sub link @ 35 bucks for the 12 (250w)-- http://www.mitekfactoryoutlet.com/products/product.cfm?PN=T6124AU

keep in mind this is straight from mitek and not from a dealer... if you have problems, they fix it fast.

note - "factory reconditioned" basically means the only thing on the speaker that is not brand new is the steel basket and the magnets... the terminals / surround / voice coil(s), and often the cone are new -- but in the case of the cosmetic flaw ones, the cones are the same.