Tube buffers worth the price???

naturallight

What i would really like is the new Dared preamp. But at $900 is out of my price range for now, or the next year. (let me put it this way, the wife says all money has to go for the house...LOL)
$200 for lets say the Yaqin tube buffer..that i can probably save up enough on the side, and she would not know it..LOL

But is this really just a waste of money? I would put it between the Adcom pre and the Onkyo M-504 power amp. It's all being fed from the Jolida Cd. Would the SDA 1C's like this, or the RTi 12's. Would i really get much from this, or should i just bite the bullet, wait a year and get the Dared pre??

mhardy6647

My perspective (and I am, on balance, a proponent and fan of high-quality vacuum tube amplification):
You'll add a layer of complexity, noise and distortion to your system, and you get to pay for that privilege! Such a deal...

Only slightly more seriously, if yours is a minimalist system, adding complexity is not likely a benefit. You may, however, like what the buffer does.

sda2mike

200 hun seems high for the yaqin...

Timothy Smith

I purchased a Grant Fidelity tube buffer a few years ago and that put me on the road to tubes and tube rolling. Went from that to a Antique Labs tube preamp and then a Counterpoint tube pre, as well as a Dynaco ST-70 amp that I use sometimes. Probably the best $150 I ever spent. I still have the GF tube buffer and loan it to people with a selection of different tubes so they can try it for themselves.

heiney9

Save up and get the pre-amp. There is a Dared that is cheaper the SL2000A, look into it. Much better than a buffer.

H9

tonyb

There's a guy right now on Milwakee's craigslist with an older model Dared 2000a pre amp for 220.00.

naturallight

Yes H9, the 2000 is a nice pre, at about $500. But i'm looking for the phono also. The new Dared with the MM phono section seems hard to beat.

The Yaqin prices seem to jump up and down, depending on what site your looking at, Also depends on the model, which is another thing i don't know about...which model may be best for how i want to use it.

It's really just a stop gap measure, to replacing the Adcom pre. I would at this point like the Dared, with the phono option. But again, price right now says NO.



It would only be placed between the Adcom and the M-504. If it can fake out the M-504 into thinking there is a high dollar tube preamp feeding it, and the SDA's like it..meaning some thing i can hear the difference in.

Then i think it's worth the money, for a stop gap solution. If i could get it $150, even better.

Now i don't expect it to slap me in the face, and say tube's are in the house, as i'm hoping the Dared will..LOL But if the SDA's don't care one Way or another, and there is close to no difference in the sound..then just a waste.

naturallight

What i have is an old Adcom GTP-400, which is not the best pre Adcom ever made, by far. But it has served it's purpose. The New Dared 2012 MC-7P should wipe the floor with it throw it in the closet, never to be heard again...LOL

Now it is being fed from a Jolida CD, that i have already rolled tubes in. The Dared will feed the Onkyo M-504. My hope is the Dared will feed the 504 with tube sonic bliss, which in turn will come thru the SDA's.



Now maybe, i'm expecting way too much out of this. With out a tube power amp..your pretty much pissing in the wind sort of speak.(which i can't afford in anyway shape or form, altho i would love one)

So to throw a cheap tube buffer in there, as a stop gap, maybe a complete waste of money. The SDA's may not care at all about the tube buffer. The SDA's seem to react different to things, then most speakers. The RTi 12's on the other hand, may like the tube buffer.



The problem is, i don't know how these speakers are going to react to the Dared, or the Yaqin tube buffer.

You may hear something, you may hear nothing..which would be a real bummer. I just don't know.

sda2mike

you won't be needing a buffer with the dared...why muck up your signal chain? the buffer is for folks who want to step into tubes with thier existing ss equipment..your dared and jolida should be a sweet combo

edit: lots of folks have a ss amp (myself included) with tube pre's and excellent results

madmax

Once the world moves to 100% tube equipment I plan on designing a solid state buffer.

sda2mike

in!.

naturallight

No guys..the tube buffer was just a stop gap...I can't afford the Dared now....this was a cheap bypass solution, for the time being. Just going between the Adcom and the Onkyo. But again, don't know if it's really going to do anything at all.

heiney9

naturallight wrote: »

Yes H9, the 2000 is a nice pre, at about $500. But i'm looking for the phono also. The new Dared with the MM phono section seems hard to beat.

You can find the SL2000 used all day long for less than $300. Grab an inexpensive SS phono pre-amp since money is tight. Anything will be better than the Adcom phono section. The Dared with the phono-pre is a lot more $$$ to aquire proper tubes so add another $500 to cost to do it right.

If you want to get some tube flavor within a tight budget the SL2000A is it.

H9

organ

naturallight wrote: »

No guys..the tube buffer was just a stop gap...I can't afford the Dared now....this was a cheap bypass solution, for the time being. Just going between the Adcom and the Onkyo. But again, don't know if it's really going to do anything at all.

Personally, I'd skip the buffer mainly for the same reasons Mhardy mentioned. You are adding more complexity/distortion to your rig with the buffer.
Just go for the tube pre, even if you have to wait. Save a little more and get a bigger leap in improvement. Just a suggestion. It is your money and you can do whatever you want.

mhardy6647

madmax wrote: »

Once the world moves to 100% tube equipment I plan on designing a solid state buffer.

There are plenty of them; some of them are very, very good. Pete Millett's low-voltage hybrid headphone amp/preamp uses one in each channel to couple its space charge triode to the output. It is a fine-sounding and inexpensive design; I've built a couple of 'em. Heck, it's a pretty nice sounding albeit extremely simple preamp!

http://www.pmillett.com/hybrid_head.htm
http://www.pmillett.com/file_downloads/ax_hybrid.pdf



The two solid state buffers are bolted to the sort of feathery looking heat sinks near the centerline of the PCB in the photo above.

The somewhat infamous Ron Welborne (www.welbornelabs.com) has ss buffers, too (at least, he used to).
Buffers are impedance matching devices and they can be very helpful. I think (assume) that most tube buffers are cathode follower circuits - these, if properly designed, should be extremely unobtrusive.

As a bizarre aside, for one whole year in college, my son drove a pair of Polk Monitor 5Bs directly with the buffered outputs of the aforementioned preamp! A little limited in volume but sounded great! (source was an iPod, if you remember those)

tonyb

Yep, lets not forget the price of tubes. A unit with alot of tubes will cost some to experiment with, plus you'll want to anyway as the tubes that usually come with new units aren't the best. Dared pre used is a good deal anyway you slice it. The Yaqin integrated that recently sold in the FM was a good deal too. Many others out there, but for 2 bones your stuck with limited choices even used.

Tube buffer ? Eh...may give you a taste of what tubes can do but not a full blown wow. Even with a buffer your going to have to buy a different tube in most cases. Worst case is you buy one used, you don't like it, you could always flip it with no to minimal loss.


SS buffer Dan ? One word......Burson.

98Badger

I am very new to tubes, but I will echo the advice given above. Save for the pre. I tried a tube buffer a few years back, and it didn't do anything positive for my system. Of course YMMV. I recently picked up a Rogue Perseus preamp and the difference is leaps and bounds above the Yaquin tube buffer I had originally tried. By the way, if you really want to try a Yaquin, I picked mine up off of e-bay for under $100.

deronb1

I spent about a hundo on a tube buffer. With my system, it made a noticable difference. It is a softer sound now, but still has the detail as before. Just not as "mechanical" sounding . More natural sounding and more of what I have been used to. My guess is that the benefits (or lack of) will depend on what system it is going to be employed in.

naturallight

Ok, thanks guys. I kind of figured the tube buffer was a waste. I'm going to have to suck it up and wait.
Yes the Dared SL2000 is nice, but what i really want is the 2012 MC-7P. I mean really, even the thing looks kick ****..It says....yes, I'm tubes, listen to my sonic bliss...LMAO

heiney9

Again add $500 to the cost of the MC-7P for the tubes to get the kind of sonic bliss you're after. So far that is one of the reasons I haven't made the jump. But I am slowly amassing the best tubes for that unit.

The other reason is I don't need a phono stage and I am throughly happy with the SL2000A at this time.

H9

naturallight

Well H9..yeah the tubes are going to cost something..but you can get away with less then $500...

I tend to like old Sylvania stuff, at least for old power tubes, for guitar amps, for 12AX7's i'm sure they would work.
Pretty much you have to trash all the crap china tubes as soon as you get it.
Philips, Tung-sol will work for 12AX7's the rectifer tube..maybe an RCA 5U4 type ..but thats a guess. But you don't have to throw $500 at it. The tubes now come down to the persons ear....you can keep throwing money at it, but i'm only willing to go so far.