Ps audio power cords

larry777

I notice on E-Bay that you can buy these power cords ( Statement and Premier ) new for $122 with free shipping from China without the box. They do look like the real deal and they have the PS Audio Plugs showing Premier SC and Statement SC on the plugs and the actual colors of the originals. Are these the real deal or extreamly good fake copies ? Seller has a very high satisfactory sales rating.

MADGSF

No experience with that seller but I think if they were new they would have the original packaging. Color me very skeptical. I have PS Audio power cords in my system and each one came in its own box.

larry777

Seller says that they can offer these prices because original packaging is not included ( The attached large hi res photos look very real ). They also have used cords that you can bid on,but those are advertised as used and 98% of new. When you look at the cords its hard to believe that they can be fake. Usually the name isn't showing like on the plug ends,if they arn't original or some other give away. If these actually are real PS Audio cords then this would be a great deal for these high quality cords.

polkfarmboy

Never look at gift horse in the mouth as there is no such thing as a free lunch. Hope this helps with your decision :cheesygrin:

larry777

I think you are saying you would pass on these deals ?

playback

Proceed with caution! at this point its pretty well known about knock off's or fakes coming from China, in one case on the PS Audio forum an AC5 was larger than the real thing:redface: I personally would pass as the mere thought of "is it real":cheesygrin: or "fake":mad: would keep me up at night:eek:

B Run

Lots of fake cables on ebay, and the usual two giveaways are they are from China and they don't have any original packaging. I wouldn't risk it.

F1nut

B Run wrote: »

Lots of fake cables on ebay, and the usual two giveaways are they are from China and they don't have any original packaging. I wouldn't risk it.

Bingo!

larry777

Thanks for the comments guys. I think I will step back from this option and look around a bit more. I have seen other sites with good prices and the box and packaging are included.

decal

Give PS Audio a call and tell them the vendors name. I bet a Benjamin that they aren't approved bu PSA.

DarqueKnight

I bought a bunch of (discontinued) PS Audio Statement SC power cords from a Hong Kong audio store off eBay. When I asked the seller why he didn't have original packaging, he said they were original genuine PS Audio product, but were "demos". The seller was a real audio store in Hong Kong and offered a 100% money back guarantee. See figure 5 of this thread.

When I emailed the eBay link to PS Audio's sales department, they said the cables could be either genuine or fake and that they have had problems with counterfeiting, expecially in Hong Kong. They said that the cables in the eBay auctions didn't have boxes because all final inspection and packaging is done in the US. The Chinese factory delivers unpackaged product in bulk.

What I subsequently learned, and what PS Audio later admitted to having a problem with, was some Chinese manufacturers having product leaving "out the back door". Sometimes factory employees woud steal product to sell and sometimes the contract manufacturer would set up a duplicate manufacturing line in another part of the factory or in another location. Sometimes slightly blemished factory seconds (B-stock) goods were simply dumped in the trash bin for anyone to pick up.

I went ahead and bought the cables. When I received them, they looked, felt, sounded and smelled like the Statement SC cords I already owned. I also measured the noise signature of the cables with an oscilloscope and the Hong Kong cables measured the same as the Statement SC cables I purchased from PS Audio.

There are some threads on the PS Audio forum discussing the obvious fake "AC" series power cords that showed up a lot on eBay shortly after they were introduced. PS Audio's Paul McGowan said the company was taking aggressive steps to address the counterfeiting, but I have not kept up with the issue.

Moose68Bash

To add a similar experience that confirms DarqueKnight's post: Not with PS Audio cables on eBay, but with Audioquest cables, I ran into this problem and dilemma. I researched it, including holding a couple of discussions with an Audioquest regional sales VP. I learned that 1) original packaging is done in the US because it is difficult for foreign contract manufacturers of cables to duplicate the packaging. So, absence of original packaging is a good sign that something may not be right. 2) With that said, "not right" may mean that the product is counterfeit or that the contract manufacturer is overproducing or running a clandestine line to produce product that is then sold at steep discounts outside legitimate channels. The product may be in all respects identical to legitimately produced and marketed product. Without having the product in hand AND DarqueKnight's know how to test it, you can't really determine whether the product performs to design standards -- unless it is so bad that your ears tell you.

I personally think purchasing products at steep discounts that are likely to have been brought to market by illegitimate means is bad practice and bad form. You may get ripped off, but even if you purchase a product that an unscrupulous contract manufacturer brings to market "through his back door," you have encouraged a practice that robs the designer/developer of the means to recover the cost of research and development and thus diminishes the resources for future innovation -- penalty paid by all.

I confess to a bias. I retired from a major US software firm. In China our products were sometimes offered on the "street" in China even before we could offer them through legitimate channels. Doesn't strike me as fair play or good for business.

jaf09

hi what's the gain with aftermarket power cords? are the originals any good? sorry just newbie to this!!!

SebastianG

why are they so expensive?

F1nut

Why don't both of you try some for yourselves, it's the only real way to know.

tonyb

SebastianG wrote: »

why are they so expensive?

Some are, some aren't.......why does a receiver cost 500 bucks and another 2000 ? Lets not even get into what speakers cost. Think Monitor 70's will go toe to toe with JM Lab Utopias ? They both play the same music.

DarqueKnight

Moose68Bash wrote: »

I personally think purchasing products at steep discounts that are likely to have been brought to market by illegitimate means is bad practice and bad form.

The problem with the cables was I purchased was, there was no way for PS Audio, or me, to know for certain if the cables were brought to market by illegitimate means. It is the same with buying gear on the used market. If you buy something off Audiogon or eBay, you don't know if the seller acquired the merchandise through legitimate means. Prior to purchase, I told PSA that the seller said he obtained them as demo samples from an audio show. They said that they could only verify that the seller, Richton Audio in Hong Kong, was not an authorized PSA dealer, but that was no indication of fake product just as a private seller offering cables on the used market is no indication of fake or ill gotten product. When you buy used audio gear you often don't get original packaging, an original purchase receipt or a certificate of authenticity.

This was also at a time when the Statement SC power cords had been discontinued and authorized US dealers were clearing stock and offering nice discounts. With that in mind, it was not a surprise to see steeper discounts from Asia.

Moose68Bash wrote: »

You may get ripped off, but even if you purchase a product that an unscrupulous contract manufacturer brings to market "through his back door," you have encouraged a practice that robs the designer/developer of the means to recover the cost of research and development and thus diminishes the resources for future innovation -- penalty paid by all.

I confess to a bias. I retired from a major US software firm. In China our products were sometimes offered on the "street" in China even before we could offer them through legitimate channels. Doesn't strike me as fair play or good for business.

I don't think the situation with the power cables and the software theft is analogous. When the PS Audio cables began appearing, I, and others, made direct inquiries to PS Audio through email and the PSA forum. Here is a link to a thread I posted two years ago on the PSA forum:

http://www.psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/comment/18395

As I mentioned in the thread linked to above, I initially encountered some reluctance on the part of PSA to discuss the matter, but they finally replied and said the cables may or may not have been genuine and they may or may not have been acquired through legitimate means. Therefore, they left it up to the buyer to decide if they wanted to take the risk. Actually, the risk in this case was substantially less than buying from a private individual since this was a real store with good seller feedback and a money back guarantee. However, I would not have taken the risk if I didn't own a "control" sample of the product and had the means to test and compare the Hong Kong cables to the sample purchased directly from PSA.

To my knowledge, there were not any confirmed fakes of the Statement SC cords. The new AC series power cords were widely counterfeited.

DarqueKnight

SebastianG wrote: »

why are they so expensive?

For the same reason that other forms of merchandise, like shoes, diamond rings, automobiles, and clothes, are so expensive.

Blownrx7

I'll be quite honest. It is sooooo tempting to try out an uber expensive cable for a fraction of the going price. But two things stop me. First is that these are more likely than not robbing PS Audio in one way or another. The second is that I still have a hard time spending over $100 bucks for a power cord no matter how good it is supposed to be...

Moose68Bash

DarqueKnight wrote: »

The problem with the cables was I purchased was, there was no way for PS Audio, or me, to know for certain if the cables were brought to market by illegitimate means. It is the same with buying gear on the used market. If you buy something off Audiogon or eBay, you don't know if the seller acquired the merchandise through legitimate means. Prior to purchase, I told PSA that the seller said he obtained them as demo samples from an audio show. They said that they could only verify that the seller, Richton Audio in Hong Kong, was not an authorized PSA dealer, but that was no indication of fake product just as a private seller offering cables on the used market is no indication of fake or ill gotten product. When you buy used audio gear you often don't get original packaging, an original purchase receipt or a certificate of authenticity.

This was also at a time when the Statement SC power cords had been discontinued and authorized US dealers were clearing stock and offering nice discounts. With that in mind, it was not a surprise to see steeper discounts from Asia.



I don't think the situation with the power cables and the software theft is analogous. When the PS Audio cables began appearing, I, and others, made direct inquiries to PS Audio through email and the PSA forum. Here is a link to a thread I posted two years ago on the PSA forum:

http://www.psaudio.com/vanilla/discussion/comment/18395

As I mentioned in the thread linked to above, I initially encountered some reluctance on the part of PSA to discuss the matter, but they finally replied and said the cables may or may not have been genuine and they may or may not have been acquired through legitimate means. Therefore, they left it up to the buyer to decide if they wanted to take the risk. Actually, the risk in this case was substantially less than buying from a private individual since this was a real store with good seller feedback and a money back guarantee. However, I would not have taken the risk if I didn't own a "control" sample of the product and had the means to test and compare the Hong Kong cables to the sample purchased directly from PSA.

To my knowledge, there were not any confirmed fakes of the Statement SC cords. The new AC series power cords were widely counterfeited.

DarqueKnight, I apologize for being offensive in my post above. It was not intentional. My comments were not really meant for people who have the knowledge, skill, and experience not only to sense that something may be wrong with a sale item that sounds too good to be true, but also to test the item to see whether it is really up to spec. In addition, you obviously bent over backwards to determine whether the items offered were legitimate.

I was really aiming my comments at relatively naive and unskilled buyers, a lot like me, who do not have the know-how and experience to identify or test items they purchase, or the will to do all the background checking you did to ascertain whether the items were legitimate.

What I was trying to convey was: When in doubt, don't buy an item that seems to be offered at a price that is too good to be true. Buying it without doing all the work you did, can have all sorts of pitfalls, one of which is depriving the legitimate manufacturer of the opportunity to recover R&D costs that are important to ensure continuous improvement and innovation.

Again, I'm sorry my post came across as offensive. I commented largely because the experience you related reminded me of my experience with Audioquest products.

DarqueKnight

Moose68Bash wrote: »

What I was trying to convey was: When in doubt, don't buy an item that seems to be offered at a price that is too good to be true. Buying it without doing all the work you did, can have all sorts of pitfalls, one of which is depriving the legitimate manufacturer of the opportunity to recover R&D costs that are important to ensure continuous improvement and innovation.

Again, I'm sorry my post came across as offensive. I commented largely because the experience you related reminded me of my experience with Audioquest products.

I did not find your post offensive. I was just offering some additional insight. I agree with you that a lot of due diligence is required in this type of situation.

badchad

I would say that if you can afford to take a chance that you're getting a fake, then go for it.

I buy lots of ebay crap from China, knowing that it is likely a "knock off" and/or cheap quality. Sure, I've gotten "Lacoste" alligator shirts that wear differently than genuine garments, but I know that beforehand and the discount is worth the risk.

acmf74

I dont mean to jack this thread but I have seen a few ZU cables on the bay.

Anyone ever use this brand?

cleavoce

I bought some of PS power cable from ebay (plus sc, statement sc, premier sc, perfecwave 10 and 12)..mostly looks like real and just only 1 looks fake and I returned it.

For the sound, I have no complaint, they sounds nice and give much improvement on my equipment (I can say this because I also have original audioquest nrg).
I believe this cable not fake but it sold on manufacture backdoor, thats why it doesn't have original package. I bought 1 audioquest nrg100 from hk and I opened 1 end of the cable, the braid, the construction and cable colour are similiar with original one.

If the chinesse people want to fake thing, why cables? if yes, why just only few brands (audioquest, ps audio, vdh, furutech, etc), why not shunyata, jps labs, even chord or qed?
I asked question to PS recently, if they accused that all PS power cable from hk are fake, why don't they buy just 1 cable, cut it through and compare it to the original one and shows it on their site? Paul mcGowan didn't answer it directly, he just said he tried to counter conterfeiter practice but all failed. He supprised me that he suggested me to use the "fake" one if I think it sounds good. :rolleyes:

larry777

Thanks for your comments Cleavoce. It seems that you had a lot of luck with your purchases.....and only had to return one power cable. Plus you got a performance boost....which is what its all about. I may still buy one of these pS Audio cords and see how it goes.

cleavoce

For further information about this perfectwave cables..

I'm very curios about the perfectwave on ebay, especially AC12 type. The cables sounds very good, no doubt but I need to know how it compares to "original" (if I can say that :rolleyes:) PS cable.

So I borrowed from my friend, he own High End Shop in my city. The cable has short barrel plug and looks quite old and I compared it to mine. The original one sounds better (? I don't know how to say), it sounds bit clearer and more robust especially on bass section but the high bit smoother. For the soundstage seems almost equal. I borrowed the cable just for 1 day only. This cable is stiffer than the one I got from ebay.

In January 2013 I ordered 1 AC12 from Partsconnexion Canada (the long barrel version), I have a very good deal, I got it for 600+50 for shipping without box and I also ordered 2 more cables from ebay from 2 different seller.
I compared the cables again and I noticed 1 cables from ebay sounds better than another ebay cable then I compared it to the one I got from partsconnexion, suprisingly..the ebay cable sounds similar with the original one I got from partsconnexion. Just one different thing I noticed, the ebay cable bit stiffer than Partsconnexion cable.
And from what I remembered about PS cable I borrowed, it sounds also bit different with the new one I bought from PC canada. The new cable have a bigger soundstage and bit more harmonic detail and don't have robbust bass.

Conclusion: PS Audio maybe change the design of PW 12 so it sounds different and the new one much more flexible. And if you can get the right seller on ebay...maybe you will get a very good deals compare to the "original" one :cheesygrin:

larry777

Thanks for the update cleavoce. Good information to know.

cleavoce

Just received my last AC12 from ebay today...
Suprisingly...the flexibility just the same with the "original" one I have and the sound just about the same too...

I came to conclusion that this AC12 came from same factory as an "original" one.... :cheesygrin:

larry777

Thats good to hear. Maybe your experience is the Norm.

decal

reported

K-daugh

why do you keep reporting people whats your issue