Giving tubes a second try

98Badger

Ok, here's the story. Tried a Chinese tube buffer in my system a couple years back and was extremely disappointed. Made the bass sloppy and didn't improve the top end much. Yes I did try more than the stock tubes. Fast forward to about nine months ago where I was at an local gathering at someone's home for a multiple speaker auditioning session. The host had a tube pre and tube amps and I was blown away by the sound. Long story short, I picked up a used Rogue Audio Perseus pre for a good price in the last two weeks. It's being fed by my W4S Dac2, and I can't believe how much more realistic music sounds! Deeper soundstage, more details and soooo smooth. I'm not being critical about the sound of my system anymore, just listening and enjoying the music.

I plan on just enjoying it for a while, but I will probably have the magnum upgrade done in the future. It came with Russian Electroharmonex tubes, and I'm very pleased with them. My only minor complaint is that the bass could be just a bit tighter. If any tube vets would share some recommendations for 12AU7 tubes, and maybe where to find them for reasonable prices, I would really appreciate it. I'm sure I will want to try rolling tubes eventually. Thanks!

thsmith

Try a Holland made 12AU7 for better bass control.

chargerman426

thsmith wrote: »

Try a Holland made 12AU7 for better bass control.

I always use Holland tubes to warm up stuff (less high and low end). If I wanted tighter bass I would go with some US black plates or West German tubes.

You will notice everyone will have a favorite tube and you will find yours eventually.

headrott

I recommend a set of RCA triple mica black plate 5814's. It's hard to find tighter bass than these, very hard. They are relatively cheap. I recommend starting here.

cnh

Tube rolling is a GIANT sinkhole! It will suck you down and spit you out. Look at Brock he's on a 24/7 ebay watch for tubes! I say. Better to mine the collective knowledge of the guys who know tubes here, I am not one (though I run tube equipment), and try a few of their suggestions, don't spend your child's college fund looking for some "holy grail". lol.

You will know something "good" when you hear it. That's what happened to me. I heard it, I bought it, and I still have to retube it, but there is time enough for that because it sounds OK so far! Can it sound better? You bet. But one has to save some money first!

cnh

GlennDog

cnh wrote: »

Tube rolling is a GIANT

PLEASURE . . .

My outlook is that it is a little like gambling. Don't put in play more than you can loose . . a harmless hobby, very satisfying

G

98Badger

cnh wrote: »

Tube rolling is a GIANT sinkhole! It will suck you down and spit you out. Look at Brock he's on a 24/7 ebay watch for tubes! I say. Better to mine the collective knowledge of the guys who know tubes here, I am not one (though I run tube equipment), and try a few of their suggestions, don't spend your child's college fund looking for some "holy grail". lol.

You will know something "good" when you hear it. That's what happened to me. I heard it, I bought it, and I still have to retube it, but there is time enough for that because it sounds OK so far! Can it sound better? You bet. But one has to save some money first!

cnh

Well, the good news is I don't have any kids....And taking advantage of the base of knowledge here is exactly why I posted. I am very happy right now, and what I have does sound excellent, but I know eventually upgradeitis will kick in. This way I can keep my eye out for a good deal on some of the recommendations. My thought is that rolling tubes is less expensive than buying a whole new preamp or other gear. I agree, I do need to save some money first.

Thank you to everyone who has offered suggestions so far.

Mike Reeter

Good choice on the Rogue, the Preseus will be my next pre if I decide to go back to separates, fine piece. What amp. are you using?

Nothing like the sound of a premium nos tube, here is a very good new production tube

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/12au7-t-pair/

The 12AU7 is plentiful, have fun.

tonyb

Just my .02, but going from a tube buffer to a Rogue pre....giant steps there. A tube buffer isn't the best representation of what tubes have to offer. That Rogue however is, no wonder you had your eyes opened.

Congrats on the pre.

98Badger

Mike Reeter wrote: »

Good choice on the Rogue, the Preseus will be my next pre if I decide to go back to separates, fine piece. What amp. are you using?

Nothing like the sound of a premium nos tube, here is a very good new production tube

http://psvanetube.com/wordpress/store/products/12au7-t-pair/

The 12AU7 is plentiful, have fun.

I have a pair of Emotivas XPA-1's driving my Paradigm S8's. Not a popular amp choice on this forum, but they have served me well and I am happy with them. My only complaint with the amps is the high gain, but that is a minor issue.

SCompRacer

+ 1 to what Tony said. Tube type, circuit type and design determine your end result with tubes. There are extremely low distortion tube offerings out there. Hagerman and ModWright (extremely low) are two low distortion designs I have direct experience with. My friend Carl (schwarcw) has a 6SN7 Rouge super magnum pre that sounds glorious.

I had some tube amps tested for distortion some years back. It showed the type of distortion, amount and the frequency it occurred at. Much better than just a single number for total distortion. It put everything in perspective for me, seeing what I heard and where with the amps.

Njoy!

shadowlight

When I had a Response Audio Bella pre - Bill Baker at Response Audio recommended Raytheon or RCA Blackplates. I was using them with Vincent SP331 amp and the speaker that I used the pre was AV123/GR Research LS6 and GR Research V2 and I loved the sound.

Biggest mistake I made was selling that pre.

Mike Reeter

98Badger wrote: »

I have a pair of Emotivas XPA-1's driving my Paradigm S8's. Not a popular amp choice on this forum, but they have served me well and I am happy with them. My only complaint with the amps is the high gain, but that is a minor issue.

If they haved served you well and you are happy, then who gives a rats a$$ what anyone else thinks? Your front end and pre are where it's at. Just my 2 pennys.

Scottinwa

I agree that tube rolling is a money pit. I waded through that swamp for years. I don't care for mushy amps. But as Mike stated: "Who cares what other people think as long as it serves YOU." I got tired of high end for many years because no matter how much you spend, SOMEONE with try to decry it as mediocre or worse. It's a lose-lose if you listen to the snobs and haters out there.

I enjoyed my Quicksilver v-4's, but they had limits as to what I could pair them with. Easy loads like POLK would sing. HARD loads like ATC SCM would not drive so well. I used the horn monos and they worked amazingly well for what they were. I couldn't get too much into the overly romantic Chinese amps (or American for that matter) because there was only so much euphonic syrup I could take before I ran to solid state.

GlennDog

Any chance those Quicksilvers are still around? PM, if so

TY

G

Scottinwa

The QS were sold over 6 years ago. Sorry.

GlennDog

Scottinwa wrote: »

The QS were sold over 6 years ago. Sorry.

It sure sounded past tense, but with the way some "blog/post" go . . . ya never know, I had to try. . . Njoy yer Sunday, man!

G