New System :)

zingo

You may have noticed that my corner horns went locally, and I swapped around some gear with a local guy with A LOT of equipment; including a nice pair of Plinius monoblocks and a pair of Talon Khorus. After considering some different speakers and electronics, took home a minty pair of late run (early 90's) KEF 104/2 and a rarely used BAT VK200.

This brings my new system to Squeezebox Touch -> McIntosh C712 -> BAT VK200 -> KEF 104/2.

The system already sounds warm and a little veiled, but I'm also coming off horns, so everything I've listened to sounds veiled. However, I've also heard the BAT is a little darker amp to begin with, and paired with the KEF seems to be the opposite to the horn sound. The sound is nicely detailed with very impressive bass, and the BAT amp runs surprisingly hot for a class A/B amp. I seem to have taken a nice step-up in component SQ with the Mc and BAT combo, but I'm still feeling out the KEFs even though they have an avid following.

I'm just getting the system warmed up, and picture will follow tonight.

zingo

hochpt21

Sounds like a big change. Looking forward to pics. Those corner horns were pretty interesting looking. I know nothing about them, but that some folks are hooked.

Good luck finding your new sound.

hochpt21

I like the look of the KEF's. And that BAT looks bad ****.

skrol

Looks like Santa came to your house early and got squashed under your entertainment center.

I assume that is room treatments?

halo71

Congrats! I don't think I have ever heard a bad thing about those Kef's. And I agree, that BAT looks like a tank.

zingo

Ha ha ha! That's funny and I totally forgot about those. I think they were just shoved underneath at one point, and after you see them a few times, you don't see them anymore...

I can't see that the KEFs need any room treatments at this point as the HUGE front port seems pretty tame, as do the silk tweeters.

zingo

halo71 wrote: »

I don't think I have ever heard a bad thing about those Kef's.

They are an interesting 3-way speaker as the MTM drivers are in a separate sealed panel mated to the front of the main cabinet which houses a pair of woofers in a "coupled cavity" (modified bandpass) enclosure. The bass is pretty strong, but doesn't go super low; low enough for most music is seems from preliminary listening.


Any placement suggestions from anyone who's owned the 104/2s? Distance between speakers, distance from walls, toe-in, etc?

polkfarmboy

Ever thought about or owned any maggies or Logans? It may give you the horn quality your missing

zingo

I have, but thought I'd take these when they presented to me. They are enjoyable to listen to and more musical than my horns were. I've moved them to about 8ft apart at a few inches from the back wall, with toe-in that points the tweeters at the listen position, and it seems to have opened the sound up a little.

cjmustang69

I have and like a pair of KEF 104.2 speakers. I drive them with an Adcom GFA-5802 through Adcom GFP-750 when I cycle them through my system. I found the Kube allows you to dial in a little more bass, if you desire to.

tonyb

Was goona suggest to play around with placement but seems your ahead of the game. Also it might be a good time to also play around with your cables since the gear is drastically different. Good luck....and for what it's worth, I liked the horns.

doctor r

Find a song with a centrally located female voice. Play it and slowly move the speakers away from each other until the strong voice starts to fall apart in tone and focus. Move the speakers back towards each other at that point until the voice is refocused. Coming off the wall will help them breath a little better also. Again a few inches at a time with familiar music source playing. Speaker cables could come into play with the sound you are describing. A little silver might shift the focus up a little and bring some more detail. Works in some systems. I have a set of 3 meter Zu Libtecs (silver and copper) that are vacationing in the closet since I upgraded to the Zu Events that I am willing to let you borrow to try out this theory if your are interested. They have Oversized 5/16" copper spades on both ends. Just drop me a PM and we can make it happen.

Rick

markmarc

Zingo, glad to see you found something new. Now the fun really begins playing position judge.

zingo

Thanks guys. I have a decent set of speaker cables, but just wired them up quick last night. The cables are bi-amp, and I'm still considering using the BAT on the highs/mids, and my 440wpc class D amp on the lows. The seller told me these like a lot of power, and that would do it.

I'll play with the positioning when my brother-in-law comes over, and I'll also try playing with the feet as the rubber ones come off and there are spikes underneath.

mister pig

Loved those horns, would have liked to have heard them.

Regards
Mister Pig

zingo

The corner horns were pretty great, but Soniphase themselves doesn't even sell them anymore as the positioning is SO specific. I'm moving next weekend and didn't have ONE pair of matching corners in the house that could accomodate them. That's not very user friendly...

zingo

This does seem to be a nice combo... :cool:

leroyjr1

Been wanting to get a listen at that BAT VK200. Been eyeing one in my area for a great price. Nice setup!

Does that amp run hot?

Thanks

zingo

The BAT 200VK runs VERY hot, almost class A hot on the fins; I can't find the electrical details in the manual or on the web site. I don't know how it's biased, but it gives off plenty of heat, and is a fairly large chassis.

It does seem to be a very detailed and natural sounding amp with a more powerful 100wpc (8 ohms) than I heard elsewhere. It does only have XLR inputs, but build quality is amazing with touches like Cardas binding posts and a massive transformer.

zingo

Speakers are now about 9' apart in a triangle configuration from my couch. They are about 8" from the back wall and almost pointed at the listening position. Swapped in better speaker cables with all bare copper connectors and the amp has been on all day.

Sound had really opened up and become more natural. Removing boundry issues helped, but so did spacing them further apart. The sound is very musical, but like most speakers the 104/2s benefit from sitting in the sweet spot.

It is strage, but this is my first pair of non-horns in a few pairs of speakers, and it took me until this evening to get used to them. I did not like the sound yesterday and set-up was part of it, but my ears also had to adjust to a different style of sound. It was initially hard to know what didn't sound good verses what I wasn't used to.

yeahbuddy

Congrats on the new system...it's always fun trying something new out, though I get the apprehension after having something you loved and were used to with the horns.

That BAT does look like a beast, may just be funny optics but from the picture it almost looks like the McIntosh is propping up the panel that's bowing under the weight of that monster. :biggrin: That's my kind of amp!

cstmar01

If I remember correctly my convo with one of the BAT guys the VK200 puts out more close to 175 watts/channel at 8 ohms. From what I remember he said it was a very under rated amp and that it was a bargin on the used market.

It was awhile ago I had the convo but I"m sure it was about that amp. BAT stuff is great and their customer service is awesome.

doctor r

Glad things are coming together.

zingo

Just chatted with Victor at BAT and he says the 200-VK is a "heavily-biased class A/B". Based on what my hand says on the heat-sinks, heavily-biased in an underestimate. :cheesygrin: That seems to be the way they operate with the under-stated power as well, which is A-OK with me.

Conradicles

Any chance you miss those Forte's?

zingo

Hard to say... I spent so long on gear that made horns sound good, that the same gear wasn't a good match to much else. These new electronics are far more versitile (and high quality) and sould be a great match with almost any speakers, some horns included. The Klipsch Forte is a fantasic full range speaker for the price, and given the right electronics. I think at this point I'm looking for a little more than them though...

tonyb

Maybe get your ears on one of these, though not the 3.0 version, I believe they would offer you a happy medium between your horns and regular box speakers.

http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue30/sptech_2.htm

Whatever happened to SP Tech anyway ? They go out of buisness ?

zingo

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly trying to find that horn sound again; my ears have gotten used to the non-horn highs and I'm quite enjoying the KEFs. I'm thinking the XOs on the KEFs needs to be refreshed as they have a lot of electrolytic caps, but I've read it's a tricky feat as KEFs have crazy XOs.

unc2701

Ha. Saw "American Psycho" last week and was wondering what the speakers were since it was set in the 80s, but they didn't look like 80s speakers. Turns out they were KEF 105-3's; totally ahead of their time.

zingo

unc2701 wrote: »

Turns out they were KEF 105-3's; totally ahead of their time.

There is a pair of KEF Reference Fours on local CL, and they look like VERY nice speakers, but not cheap. I've never disliked a pair of KEF speakers I've heard, but the extra complex crossovers have always spooked me a little.