Audyssey MultEQ and Velodyne SMS-1

POLKHT

Is using Audyssey MultEQ for my sub, the same as using a Velodyne SMS-1? Or are they totally different.

Thanks.

jaritta

Having used both, they are similar. The audyssey just meets a house curve that is pre set from the factory. As for the sms unit, it also helps you to eq and meet a house curve, the other think you can do with the sms is you can control base volume with a remote, or with a universal remote.... so if you feel like bass is lacking in a movie you can bump it up just from a touch of a remote.

EndersShadow

The SMS has the ability to tweak the curve and works great in conjunction with Audyssey. The SMS you would run beforehand and then tweak it to get the big peaks and dips out of your frequency response. You then would run the Audyssey auto-cal and it would further tweak the fix your Frequency response resulting in better results than either product used seperately.

When you get into Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 though the benefits are a bit less. For just MultiEQ it will help significantly!

newrival

EndersShadow wrote: »

The SMS has the ability to tweak the curve and works great in conjunction with Audyssey. The SMS you would run beforehand and then tweak it to get the big peaks and dips out of your frequency response. You then would run the Audyssey auto-cal and it would further tweak the fix your Frequency response resulting in better results than either product used seperately.

When you get into Audyssey MultiEQ XT32 though the benefits are a bit less. For just MultiEQ it will help significantly!

Sorry, I have to disagree with you here. If you run the SMS first, you're going to get incorrect measurements in the time domain due to the delay through the SMS. This can be verified by the incorrect distance measurements that will be displayed by Audyssey. Ideally, one would only want to use the SMS for sub positioning first, not as correction, then run audyssey when the position with the best in-room FR has been located, finally you'll want to go back into the SMS and tweak the curves accordingly.

EndersShadow

I have to disagree. This comes straight from the vendor:

We recommend that you first run the Velodyne process and then run MultEQ in the Marantz. Please also look here for more subwoofer setup tips with MultEQ. All non-Audyssey processing should be done prior to running Audyssey.

Source article: https://audyssey.zendesk.com/entries/166925-audyssey-and-velodyne-s-room-bass-correction

P.S. you are correct in that the distances will be off on Audyssey, but as they state, you want to run all other EQ before Audyssey.

Couple other helpful links:

A GUIDE TO AUDYSSEY AUTO CALIBRATION & OTHER TECHNOLOGIES

see #10 under What to do and what not to do

newrival

I'm sure that is all fine and good, but the advice seems to be catering to the uninitiated. To those that just want to plop a sub in the corner and run two programs and have nothing else to do with it, sure that is the best way. Is it ideal? I hardly think so.

EndersShadow

newrival wrote: »

I'm sure that is all fine and good, but the advice seems to be catering to the uninitiated. To those that just want to plop a sub in the corner and run two programs and have nothing else to do with it, sure that is the best way. Is it ideal? I hardly think so.

I believe the reason for that is that with the SMS you can dial in the big peaks and valleys manually and let Audyseey work on the little stuff. Yes I realize the distances will be off on Audyssey, but I believe this is the overall prefered method for most SMS and Audyseey users from what I have read.

And I just realized in reading the OP's post that I should actually have said a bit more.

Audyssey MultiEQ is a bit more than just an EQ for the sub (or the fronts & sub). It sets delays, attempts to fix dips and valleys in all your channels you have connected.

If however your using your SMS-1 for your front Left, Right and sub then thats a whole nother ballgame.
If howev

kuntasensei

Just because the detected distances are off, that doesn't mean it won't sound perfectly fine. Delays in the signal chain are always taken into account with Audyssey, which is why its distance detection often differs from actual physical distance. But the ultimate point is that the AVR will set it optimally either way so that it is in phase with the other speakers.

I'll give an example: I run a passive SVS sub - the 20-39CS+. Previously, I was running it off a Samson 1000 rackmount amp. As the Samson has no signal processing, Audyssey typically detected within .5 ft of actual physical distance in my room (which I believe is caused by the ART-351 EQ I have in line to act as a subsonic filter). However, a few months back, I swapped out the Samson for a new Crown XLS-1500 that has DSP built into it. With the Crown, Audyssey detects 2 additional feet distance. Despite this, I still get a nice flat transition across the crossover range... and it has never sounded better.

So yes, you're altering the delay in the signal chain by having the SMS involved. No biggie... Even the built-in filters in your sub, the phase control on the sub's amp, etc. can induce such delay. What matters is that your AVR is properly detecting this delay and altering the digital delays to correct for it. And any frequency-dependent effects of group delay are typically mitigated by Audyssey's FIR-based filters anyway.

If, however, you run the SMS AFTER Audyssey, you're definitely not going to get good results... because the 8 parametric filters in the SMS, like any parametric filter, alter time/phase response. If you let Audyssey line things up then monkey with the SMS, you've just undone the time alignment that Audyssey does. If you run Audyssey AFTER the SMS, it can adjust around the time/phase issues caused by the parametric equalization in the SMS (though ideally, newrival's point about proper placement remains).

But here's the ultimate word on the matter: If you have the SMS and Audyssey, TRY IT. If you like the way it sounds, that's all that matters.

POLKHT

So they are similar, but I still will need to get a SMS-1. I was hoping that I would not have to get a SMS-1.

POLKHT

I'm now thinking that I might get a Behringer BFD. From what I've read, it's cheaper, but it's more difficult to set up.

kuntasensei

I have to ask: Why do you think you NEED external equalization? Have you measured and found major frequency issues with your subwoofer?

POLKHT

kuntasensei wrote: »

I have to ask: Why do you think you NEED external equalization? Have you measured and found major frequency issues with your subwoofer?

I have not measured. I'm not sure if I even need external equalization. But I have a Onkyo with Audyssey. I now want to use Audyssey, which I thought EQ'd my sub along with speakers. If the SMS-1, BFD and Audyssey do the same thing, I would just use the Audyssey.

I assume that by using a SMS-1 or BFD, it would not my system.

POLKHT

I meant to say.....I assume that by using a SMS-1 or BFD, it would not make my subs sound worse.

kuntasensei

It is really hard to say. In most applications, it shouldn't make things worse to have a SMS-1 or BFD in the loop, so long as you run Audyssey AFTER you adjust those. Honestly though, I would do an in-depth run through with Audyssey first using a tripod, then take some frequency readings with a SPL meter to see if you even have an issue that would require further equalization. No sense in buying gear to fix a non-existent problem, y'know?

POLKHT

kuntasensei wrote: »

It is really hard to say. In most applications, it shouldn't make things worse to have a SMS-1 or BFD in the loop, so long as you run Audyssey AFTER you adjust those. Honestly though, I would do an in-depth run through with Audyssey first using a tripod, then take some frequency readings with a SPL meter to see if you even have an issue that would require further equalization. No sense in buying gear to fix a non-existent problem, y'know?

Agreed..... But I can get BFD for about 40.00 used.

POLKHT

So lets say that I need a Behringer DSP1124P. Can I use a SMS-1 to auto calibrate my two subs, then use those values from the SMS-1 to set the DSP1124P?

kuntasensei

That depends. I don't know the specifics of how the SMS-1 handles its equalization. But again, I think you're overthinking this. Unless you know you have a problem that needs addressing, why are you trying to address one? Audyssey by itself does more in-depth equalization than either of the external solutions you're looking at adding. The only reason you would need either of those is if you have a room-induced peak that is beyond the scope of Audyssey's equalization... and even then, I would try to address that with placement or room treatments instead of additional equalization if possible.