preamp time

erniejade

I am thinking of changing preamps. Right now I am running a McIntosh c-39, legacy focus, w4s dac2, pioneer d9 sacd, and technics 1200 with a denon dl160. I had a jolida cd player before and i kind of miss a little bit of the wider sound stage / bloom it had so, I thought I might look into a tube preamp. I think the w4s is much faster, and more accurate vs the jolida internal dac but, again, I think I miss some of the wider sound stage it had.

I have gone back and forth debating between a CJ 10 or 12 or Audio Research SP 14 or 16. The 14 and 16 all have wonderful reviews as well as the CJ's. The 16 is newer. I am looking for the tube bloom / soundstage with keeping the speed and sharpness of the system. So far the sp16 is what my gut is saying to try. Reading some peoples opinion on the 16, the ar is a bit more analyticalal dryer sounding vs the CJ stuff.

I was even thinking of a jolida Jusion modded
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-jolida-fusion-modified-preamps-are-exceptional-2012-08-21-preamplifiers-30067-marietta-ga since they are all in the same price range.

If I change preamps from the McIntosh, do you think I will get more of the sound I am looking for? I like a warmer sound but, I want a mix of a warm sound with speed, clean highs, and fast mids.

Any opinions on any of the ones I have put up here?

dkg999

I currently use the ARC SP16L. I previously had the CJ PV-10 in a system, and it is on long-term loan to a friend (actually I think at this point she is homesteading it!). IMHO the SP16L is a significant step up from the PV-10. In all fairness my PV-10 is a little beat-up and probably needs to have some new tubes, caps, etc. I've listened to the PV-12 and 14, and was really impressed with the 14. Have you considered a Rogue 66 Magnum? The Rogue would also have the bloom and width you reference. I have the Rogue 66 in my office system.

erniejade

I have read about some reliability issues with the rogue units in general. Although, people i have talked to about Rogue in general love the sound out of them.

Thanks for the opinion on the sp16 vs the CJ pv10. So on the CJ side the 14 is the better of them? Or are you taliing about the ARC sp14? Hard to keep them all strait when all have close to the same model number LOL. all seem to be in the same price range 1200-1500$. I actually never looked at the CJ PV14L.

Still the arc SP16 seems to be calling me. LOL. Again, i do have a good sounding McIntosh c-39 but, I am missing some of that wider soundstage / bloom i gues or maybe just the "tube type sound" in general but ( espeically in the bass) , want the speed of SS int he mids and highs. The mac is warmer sounding in general but again, if i didnt have the jolida before then I probably wouldnt know what I am missing lol.

dkg999

I was referencing the CJ PV 14L. I have no experience with the ARC SP14.

Beta

erniejade wrote: »

I was even thinking of a jolida Jusion modded
http://app.audiogon.com/listings/tube-jolida-fusion-modified-preamps-are-exceptional-2012-08-21-preamplifiers-30067-marietta-ga

I have not heard one, but I am "guessing" that modded Jolida Fusion probably sounds pretty sweet. Chris Johnson does great job modifying Jolida gear. I have been running a Jolida 502p power amp that he modified. Prior to the Jolida, I was running a Parasound Halo A21. Obviously, one is SS and the other is a tube amp. However, to my ears, the modified Jolida blows away the A21, and by no small margin.

You may want to consider resale value if you consider the modified Fusion. It's probably safe to assume you will have to take a bath if you decide to unload it. If you do pull the trigger on the Fusion, please post a review. Whatever you decide to do, have fun.

tonyb

What amp you using big guy ? Considered a Joule ?

We like the same things in sound, and to me anyway the Mac's aren't know for speed. I like the Bat pre's too, well, their amps are no slouch either. If speed is what your missing and slam in the lower and mid regions, look for a good SS power amp coupled with a tube pre. I sure know it isn't the speaker because they do it all on another level....and they like some power behind them. Also, I've had some good luck with silver interconnects and copper speaker wire. The speakers really portray any slight changes in the electronics or cabling. That Joule pre looks sweet and some guys here have them, can't remember who off hand. Mainly because I'm only on my first cup of coffee this morning. Good luck to you.

erniejade

I am running a sunfire sig II re-done by rolland. The difference on the amp was night and day after he worked his stuff on it. The legacy focus mids are fast and darn reveling to me. That is why I thought maybe the issue was with the McIntosh preamp since it is more warmer sounding vs fast and bloom or wider soundstage like a tube can do. I am not against trying a different amp after I find tube pre. I completely forgot about BAT.

I will look into Joule. I havent done any research on them. I am not against getting a different amp that is for sure! I think 1st for the change is the preamp.


For speaker / IC I am running DH labs Q10 for speaker ( basically a combo of silver and copper) and the DH labs Air Matrix for IC.

erniejade

A lot of people seem to also like Dared. I have never heard one though. The Dared mc-7p doesnt look bad either. Not sure if it would be on par with bat or the AR 16 though.

cstmar01

welllll

if I get a chance to get down to Chicago area as I plan on sometime in the next month or two I could also bring by my BAT VK31 if you wanted to see how it sounds in your system.

Uses 6 6922 tubes and I forgot what I have in there right now. Anyways let me know if you are ever interested and I can swing by with it and let you listen to it as well.

erniejade

Heck yes! I am in the burbs Bolingbrook. Let me know and we can see if dekuda, Newrival and Juna R can make it as well!

tonyb

http://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?130521-Upgrading-PREAMP-The-wait-is-killing-me&highlight=Joule

Might be all you ever need.

Another suggestion given the sound you like, an integrated from Musical Fidelity. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

erniejade

OMG the Joule looks amazing but, even used is a little out of my price range. I would like to keep it in the 1500 mark.

Tonyb, looked up some of the integrated from Musical Fidelity. While I have never been a big fan of integrated, I just ran across the kw500 on audiogon. There is not a ton of info about it but, from what it looks like to me, its a tube pre with a 500 wpc amp? I guess I could just sell my sunfire sig II and McIntosh pre and grab something like this. Again, I have never been a fan or even considered an integrated before but, this one has my interest.

erniejade

Hang on, it looks like the Musical Fidelity has the nu-vista tube and they do not make that tube anymore. Nevermind!

erniejade

I talked to a Musical Fidelity rep and a authorized dealer for Musical Fidelity. They both for my speakers and setup advised me against the integrated. The both said I am better off with the sunfire sig II or something close to it and both recommended the AR sp16 or Joule for my speakers over CJ or some of the others I was thinking of. Both knew of my preamp, the musical fidelity dealer said they also were mcintosh dealers as well and knew and sold my preamp in the past. I am suprised and glad that both were honest with me and didnt try to sell me on something they had in stock or anything like that.

Tempo High Fidelity was the authorized dealer I spoke to. Nice people for anyone in the MA area!

tonyb

Curious....why did they suggest against an integrated ? MF is no slouch when it comes to SQ and horsepower. I've seen used Joule's go for 12-1500 on Audiogon, should be right up your alley. Might be last years model though and not the newest one.

Just a thought anyway pal, so scratch the integrated, hook up an AR or Joule pre and let the fun times roll. Search some of the pre amp threads, I know we have discussed them before and those who have them sure as sh$t aren't parting with them any time soon.

The LAP100 mark3 I believe is what I was refering to. Some even prefer it over the newer 150.

Did you happen to see the Dodd on the 'gon for under 9 bones ?

erniejade

They said the integrated even though it is powerful would not be a match for a 4 ohm speakers that can dip down to 2.

Both of them said since I have the 3 woofer focus, bass control is the key and some tube pre's would make it sound sloppy instead of tight. Some speakers sound better with a looser bass tube pre or in general, and some need the tighter pre's.

The joule, I will take a look at the lap100 mkIII some good reviews for it but seems a bit harder to find

tonyb

Gotcha.....they do need the current, and personally I never heard a MF integrated on big Legacys so I'm inclined to take their word for it. What dac you using with this setup ?

Judging by your description of the sound, it sound to me like a musicality issue. I know the Sunfires, gobbs of power, but never came across to me as musical. Just my opinion of course. The B&k amps, the BAT amps....have it in spades. McCormack amps too. I use a Butler tdb2250, a hybrid tube/ss. People seem to also like Moscode amps on these big boys. The difference being the Moscode you can tube roll, the Butler you can't. I also know what maybe the effect of too much tube bloom, rounded notes and sloppy bass. Could possibly be a combination of the 2 ? Somethin' to think about anyway, I know finding that synergy and sound can be a pain in the arse.

Anytime your up my way, stop by and get an ear on the Butler and see if it floats your boat. The speaks aren't set up in the ideal positions, thanks to the wife, but still sound pretty darn good.