Thoughts on Equalizers..............

myron horn

Throw 'em all at me! I have a Nad 1000 pre-amp, Adcom GFA545....and a set of RTA15TL's........Let me know all your thoughts on adding an equalizer.........ADC, AudioSource, Soundcraftsmen, BSR, any recommendations? Thanks in advance!

F1nut

They are great, you should add 3 or 4 to get the best results.

Clipdat

My totally uneducated opinion is that the most direct signal you can get from your source to your speakers is the most ideal. Never felt the need to really EQ music when just playing it back. I'm actually glad my NAD C316BEE has a "Tone Defeat" button that completely bypasses the tone knobs.

Fongolio

I use a ADC Soundshaper III Paraequalizer. Looks great. Dead silent. Fixes room anomolies that treatments won't. Love it. Let the EQ bashing begin!!!

tonyb

Aside from adding alot of noise to the signal, their great.

tonyb

Actually, I've used plenty in the old days. One I used to hold my garage door open. 2 others I used with some plywood to make a shelf in the garage too. They worked excellant and performed their duties.

littlewoodboats

Proper EQ has its place in the world. The pro sound/broadcast engineers of the old days would tell you the EQ was used to flatten the room response from 20 to 20k. The thought being you wanted your playback to be as neutral as possible to hear the studio engineers mix.

Remember that a room is a mechanical amplifier tuned to specific frequencies depending on size,shape,construction, etc. It will have a resonant frequency (most likely more than one). The EQ can be used to flatten the "ring modes" caused by this mechanical amplifier. I am sitting in a converted garage that comes alive at around 90hz. Covering some of these bare walls will most certainly help. EQ will go the rest of the way to help tame a poor room. My neighbors will appreciate the effort.

Not all equalizers are created equal. The noise concerns introduced by poor quality units can often be worse than the original problem. Before the introduction of the digital units most consumer EQ units were full octave at best and the five band units should have been outlawed. I was using 1/3 rd octave units from White Instruments. Lots of mod pots and close to impossible for an amateur to set up. Graphic units introduced lots of nastiness if not done correctly. The problem with the full octave units (ten band) is the band is so wide you never got lucky enough to have the ring mode peak fall dead center of the band. Channel balance between the sides was critical as this is where things like phase shift were introduced. The wider the band the more drastic the shift. The Greatful Dead used sixth octave White Instruments series 4000 units.

Jump ahead to parametric and most of the old problems are corrected. We do not need 31+ bands as the ISO center of the frequency is movable. Same Same for the width of the frequency as well as the db per octave cut or boost. Throw in fast fourier and phase shift is a thing of the past.

I think they have a place but as always set up is critical. The units are smarter and we have computers to assist. The overall understanding of the issues while using a good RTA/pink noise source is still necessary for good result. An SPL meter will show a spike that can be addressed. What the SPL meter cannot do is provide the specific information necessary for precision correction. Think of your EQ as a surgical instrument not a sledgehammer.

I humbly await my fiery death.

cnh

Welcome to Club Polk!

I think Jesse's response is the most pithy! I find that on good quality equipment you rarely need equalization. A lot here, even use passive pre-amps that don't allow it! It is true "most" add some noise because they're in the signal path. I had one "genius" who was selling me some vintage gear tell me that "I" really needed one because it boosted the power of any amp. He then proceeded to crank all the levers to +12 db and of course the sound was louder, and it sounded "awful" too!

I have two vintage equalizers (a Sansui and a Pioneer that have been sitting in my dining room for over a year connected to nothing).

Now having said this. There are some instances where a little equalization is NOT the worst thing in the world. Especially if you're cranking it up in a garage like tony suggests above! Hitting the party dance floor, or trying to listen at midnight volumes where low frequencies usually drop off. So I'm not 100 percent against them. Heck, I even use the loudness button on some of my vintage receivers at low volumes, God forbid!

But, in general, if you're at normal volumes or more. Equalization doesn't do much but increase your noise floor. If you notice the bass and treble controls on a good pre-amp with a good set of speakers, they don't really change the sound as much as let's say a receiver does. I've had to turn up the Bass full throttle to hear any significant bass output increase from my NAD integrated. There is a reason for that!

So, certainly experiment and get back to us. But turn that stuff off if your volume is sufficient.

cnh

zingo

You should be able to address any sound quality issues without needing EQ, but they do have their place if not used as a band-aid.

onebadchad

Only if they have a lot of lights that bounce around

steveinaz

I'm a simplicity freak, so you don't want my opinion. Less is more. I suppose using the correct set-up equipment, and doing it "right" (in other words, not using the EQ as a tone control) and given that the equipment is of the quality necessary to actually be beneficial---it could be good; but then again, it won't change your room one bit.

A probable downside is that you are adding a TON of electronics/sliders/components/connections etc; between YOU and the MUSIC.

mhardy6647

It is possible and even value-added to "do" equalization that improves the fit of a hifi system in a given environment. It is neither trivial nor inexpensive to do right, though.

[Deleted User]

I believe this is what you might be referring to, Mr. H:
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/692cello/

George Grand

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

I believe this is what you might be referring to, Mr. H:
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/692cello/

So needless to say, if you go with three or four of them like Jesse said, you're looking at some serious scratch.

mhardy6647

Kenneth Swauger wrote: »

I believe this is what you might be referring to, Mr. H:
http://www.stereophile.com/solidpreamps/692cello/

Well, no, actually - but I have run across one of those preamps and had the opportunity to spend some quality time with it. I know this guy :-) who has made something of a cottage industry around the old Cello pieces.

I was thinking about one superb hifi setup in the deep 'burbs of Boston that has been carefully and professionally tuned and EQd and sounds marvelous in the large (50 x 50 foot), reverberant space in which it is installed. Langevin PPP EL84 main amplifiers, vintage RCA field coil woofers (multiple drivers per channel) and modern field coil drivers for MR and HF. That's about all I can say on the topic. We're not talking Best Buy equipment, though.

littlewoodboats

I know what you are saying MRH.

My friend down in Portland Texas used to be the head of engineering for White Instruments many years ago. He bi-amps a pair of EV 7300A's running through third octave EQ for the base and sixth octave for the mids and highs. The sound is fantastic. What you hear is what the studio mix engineer created. Professional calibration is required.

Nothing from Best Buy need apply.

cnh

Don't disagree, but how many here can "afford" such "esoteric" equalization done by a "professional" no less? It's great info. But I doubt the OP had anything more than a standard equalizer of the not too prohibitively expensive kind in mind.

That said. Adding info to the data base here is a "good" thing!

Now back to reality, excuse me, I mean the Quotidian. lol

cnh

littlewoodboats

cnh wrote: »

Don't disagree, but how many here can "afford" such "esoteric" equalization done by a "professional" no less? It's great info. But I doubt the OP had anything more than a standard equalizer of the not very expensive kind in mind.

That said. Adding info to the data base here is a "good" thing!

Now back to reality, excuse me, I mean the Quotidian. lol

cnh

Valid point. The gear is available, it is the set-up where all of the magic happens.

The last time my buddies system was voiced it was done by the chief sound engineer of a televised music show. The network that broadcasts the show starts with PBS. They have been friends for over 40 years. I could not hire the guy at any price.

myron horn

For sucha simple question, got a lot more response than i thought i would! Thats why I love this forum! After some research into the matter, I'll look for an AudioControl C-101.....found a couple older reviews on the piece, and I do realize that there always can be some added "noise" whenever you go this route.....(loved steveinaz "less is more" , as thats usually the way I roll on most anything.....littlewoodboats and cnh,,, Thanks! Sounds like good thoughts to ponder..and your right, the OP cant afford a esoteric set-up...52 yo, married, and a child....I feel guilty the way it is as it feels I'm taking things from my family just to satisfy this musical lust! Nonetheless, gotta have my fix! Thanks guys!

Face

DSP before the signal is converted the analog is the best way.

VR3

F1nut wrote: »

They are great, you should add 3 or 4 to get the best results.

Jesse... Audio purgatory for you bro...

Fongolio

Bottom line....if it pleases my ears, I don't give rat's hairy posterior what any one says about it. I love what my eq does for my music.

Same applies to the rest of my setup.

mhardy6647

myron horn wrote: »

For sucha simple question, got a lot more response than i thought i would! Thats why I love this forum! After some research into the matter, I'll look for an AudioControl C-101.....found a couple older reviews on the piece, and I do realize that there always can be some added "noise" whenever you go this route.....(loved steveinaz "less is more" , as thats usually the way I roll on most anything.....littlewoodboats and cnh,,, Thanks! Sounds like good thoughts to ponder..and your right, the OP cant afford a esoteric set-up...52 yo, married, and a child....I feel guilty the way it is as it feels I'm taking things from my family just to satisfy this musical lust! Nonetheless, gotta have my fix! Thanks guys!

Just a thought - an interesting and (at least, when it was first on the market) rather favorably reviewed piece of gear along these lines is the Behringer DEQ2496. Yes, Behringer's reputation for product (hardware) quality isn't great, and, yes, it's built for pro use (i.e., balanced I/O rather than unbalanced) but the price is right. I've been tempted for years to get one to play with...

http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=248-661

Face

These seem to be really catching on: http://www.minidsp.com/

If you use your PC as a source, there are several programs allow you to add DSP/EQ/Room Correction before the signal is converted to analog.