Interested in Tubes

CCNJ

I realize that one part of this hobby that I enjoy is trying out new gear. I am perfectly happy with my current setups but at some point I would like to experiment with a tube preamp and rolling different tubes. I would probably pair it with my benchmark HDR (use dac section only), Parasound A21 and totem hawks.

I have been reading a lot of tube threads (including H9's Holy Grail) and am thinking that the dared sl2000a might be a good place to start. Do you think the little dared will have good synergy with my gear and provide enough of what a good tube preamp should bring to the music? I am looking to spend about $500 (without tube upgrades) but would go a little higher if needed.

I am not in a rush to buy, but wanted to get opinions and have time to search the used market before I pull the trigger.

Chris

Oldfatdogs

I just got the 2000a,I couldn't be happier.It blends very well with a ss Belles one amp it a good starting place.I dont see it going anywhere for quite a while.Good tubes is the key H9s holy grail thread covers it.
Dan

zingo

This is nice little tube preamp that you could do plenty of tube rolling on, and has a remote control for $900.

http://shop.grantfidelity.com/Shuguang-Classic-S200MK-Tube-Pre-Amplifier.html

erniejade

For 350$ i am actually looking at a grant tubedac 11. I was actually thinking of a tube buffer and called grant. Ian suggested the dac11 even though I have a w4s dac2. He said there is 2 sets of analogue inputs on it. I can put the w4s on 1, and my turntable one the 2nd one and use the tube outs. It also has a volume and can be used as a preamp as well. When I originally called, I was thinking of the b-283 mkII but, he said even tube rolled on the 283, the tubedac 11 sounds better. He also said the single 6N11 vacuum tube can be replaced with 6922, E88CC, 6DJ8, 6H23n and CCa tubes so, you have a good variety of tubes to roll if you choose to.

I have not owned anything from grant before but, from others on the board and from reading reviews, they have a good reputation. it is also supposedly much different than the tubedac9 grant had and was supposedly designed from the ground up for them so supposedly no copies of it out there on the design.

CCNJ

Thanks for the suggestions. So here's what I'm thinking...either go with the Dared Sl2000a and upgrade the tubes based on H9 suggestions in the Holy Grail thread or just buy a better preamp and keep the stock tubes for a while. I was looking at the Rogue Perseus Magnum. Very sleek looking unit and it got really good reviews. Anybody heard the rogue? Would that be a significant improvement over the Dared?

Ern Dog

Another option to consider is the Modwright 9.0SE. This tube pre will blow your socks off. You could find a used one for $1000, which is more than your budget, but worth every dime.

heiney9

CCNJ wrote: »

Thanks for the suggestions. So here's what I'm thinking...either go with the Dared Sl2000a and upgrade the tubes based on H9 suggestions in the Holy Grail thread or just buy a better preamp and keep the stock tubes for a while. I was looking at the Rogue Perseus Magnum. Very sleek looking unit and it got really good reviews. Anybody heard the rogue? Would that be a significant improvement over the Dared?

No stock tubes in any pre-amp will suffice. Old stock tubes is where it's at. If it were me and I was on a budget, do the Dared and some excellent tubes. Not a nicer pre-amp with stock tubes. Trust me on this. If you can do the nicer pre and the nice old stock tubes, go for it. But nice 12AX7's, 6SN7's or 12AU7's aren't cheap. Whereas 12AT7's are a little cheaper than your typical same model 12AX7.

To me some of the magic in the Dared is the rectifier tube, you don't get that in the Rogue. The Rogue is a nice piece, better than the Dared. But at what cost. Not really a fair comparision to the Dared since the Rogue is 3.5 times or more than the Dared. Atleast in the Rogue the (4) 12AU7's won't break the bank.

H9

doctor r

My tube journey started with the Dared 2000 also. Rolled some 12at7s, a few rectifiers and then ........ Bought Tube power amps and then ......... Upgraded the pre ............then new power amp. It's been a great ride but just be aware of the rabbit hole. The Dared will really let you experience how tube rolling effects an amp and this is knowledge everyone should acquire or at least be exposed too. It also sounds great when you find a nice tube recipe. Also look for cigar boxes. Great for storing all those tubes you eventually will have in the closet.

CCNJ

heiney9 wrote: »

No stock tubes in any pre-amp will suffice. Old stock tubes is where it's at. If it were me and I was on a budget, do the Dared and some excellent tubes. Not a nicer pre-amp with stock tubes. Trust me on this. If you can do the nicer pre and the nice old stock tubes, go for it. But nice 12AX7's, 6SN7's or 12AU7's aren't cheap. Whereas 12AT7's are a little cheaper than your typical same model 12AX7.

To me some of the magic in the Dared is the rectifier tube, you don't get that in the Rogue. The Rogue is a nice piece, better than the Dared. But at what cost. Not really a fair comparision to the Dared since the Rogue is 3.5 times or more than the Dared. Atleast in the Rogue the (4) 12AU7's won't break the bank.

H9

H9 - I appreciate your feedback and whichever tube preamp I end up with, I will definitely experiment with older vintage tubes. Do you have any recommended reading so I can get up to speed on tubes? For example, I am not sure how the rectifier tube influences the sound over other tubes. I am looking to add some warmth to my system without loosing too much of the detail.

CCNJ

doctor r wrote: »

My tube journey started with the Dared 2000 also. Rolled some 12at7s, a few rectifiers and then ........ Bought Tube power amps and then ......... Upgraded the pre ............then new power amp. It's been a great ride but just be aware of the rabbit hole. The Dared will really let you experience how tube rolling effects an amp and this is knowledge everyone should acquire or at least be exposed too. It also sounds great when you find a nice tube recipe. Also look for cigar boxes. Great for storing all those tubes you eventually will have in the closet.

This is an expensive hobby and I do realize that getting into tubes will just take my spending to another level. That's why I want to get my preamp purchase right so I just focus on tube rolling rather continually questioning my preamp purchase.

doctor r

The dared is a great choice. My journey has been over many, many years. I do not think you will be disappointed.

george daniel

If it were me,,I'd get an auricapped Dared,,roll some tubes,like Brock and Dr R suggested,,sure there are more expensive pre amps out there,,but if you look at the price to performance ratio,the little Dared is tough to beat.I should add that I have a tricked out Dared with a rectifier that I got from Brock,,and signal tubes that came from Dr R--tube rolling is the key with it.Good luck,,and most of all,,,,have fun!

CCNJ

george daniel wrote: »

If it were me,,I'd get an auricapped Dared,,roll some tubes,like Brock and Dr R suggested,,sure there are more expensive pre amps out there,,but if you look at the price to performance ratio,the little Dared is tough to beat.I should add that I have a tricked out Dared with a rectifier that I got from Brock,,and signal tubes that came from Dr R--tube rolling is the key with it.Good luck,,and most of all,,,,have fun!

Thanks George. If I go the Dared route I will look into some vintage tubes as others have suggested. Did the aurica cap upgrade make a substantial improvement? Did you do the mods yourself or send out?

CCNJ

OK - seriously considering the little dared and one or two more martinis tonight will probably cinch the deal

H9 - Can you recommend some nice tubes. I saw your holy grail thread but didn't see any recommendations for the rectifier tube only signal tubes. I don't mind spending a few hundred on tubes if they make a big difference.

audio_alan

CCNJ - I have a Dared also and can echo the sentiments of it being a great little unit. Regarding the rectifier tube, I think the "go to" rectifier for most of us is an old Brimar 5Z4G. H9 has also suggested a Bendix 6106 in the past (which is a variant of the 5Y3), and is an acceptable rectifier in the SL2000a too.

I once tried a Ratheon 5Y3GT in my Dared. It was ok, but I soon switched back to the Brimar. But who knows though, you might like a 6106/5Y3 better than a 5Z4G tube. As always, there are lots of factors that could influence the final sound.

Take your time finding tubes and you can get a good deal on them. But definitely, replace those stock tubes... BLECK!

soundfreak1

+1000 to op i have the dared as well and it is amazing. I also love parasound amps especially vintage ones as you can see in my system below. What the dared did with the parasound was juat beautifull. Brought out more of its warmth and i went with telefunken tubes for thier linerarity. The combe is fantastic, i still get that "WOW" feeling every time i turn it on.it seems to create a senergy with the amp that no other pre has and i have had a dozen or so pre's and none do what the dares does. And it is dead center in your budget plus extra for tubes.