LSI 15's or RTIA7's

mesquitehead

I'm selling of my 4 month old MartinLogan Source speakers and looking for a replacement in the HT setup. I will use them for HT stuff but 2 channel listening as well. I have the SDA1C's on a Carver TFM-35 in my shop and love them. Being 44 and having some high end hearing loss I like a speaker that is a bit forward and that can be played loud, mostly Americana and rock stuff. The LSI15's and the RTIa9's are both in my price range so I was hoping to get some feeedback. I know the LSI's are 4ohms and I'd be bi-amping off of a Yamaha RX-A820, I know the front channels will be ok at 4 ohms but an a bit concerned about assigning the rear channels to them and whether they will be ok at 4 ohms. THe RTIa9's are 8ohms so no problem there...and I am running a polk sub as well. Thanks in advance for the feedback! :biggrin:

hochpt21

I have not heard the RTIA's. I believe most report that they are more forward than the LSi's, however. Most also report that RTI beats LSi for HT.

As far as the LSi's. They are a very detailed speaker. I really enjoy jazz, blues and acoustic on them. I don't care as much for rock (especially loud) on them. YMMV

Based on those factors, I would say RTI, but I know others will chime in.

jbooker82

Forward and up front is the RTi's.

naturallight

Hochpt21...I'd be interested to know ..why you don't like the LSI 15 for loud rock. As i was thinking about getting rid of my RTi 12's for the LSI 15...but thats about what i play most of the time..plus no matter what i play..it's not at very low volumes..as i sit 15 feet back in the room.

nhhiep

from what you're describing, Rti series is for you. but are you sure you really want to use it for music? My ears hurt everytime I use it for music compare to other polks that I have listed below. But for HT, Rti is the king

mesquitehead

I listen to a lot of music on my HT setup and am more concerned about a dynamic music speaker than a HT speaker. I like it loud too! Problem is I am concerned about bi-amping the LSI's by assigning 2 rear channels of the Yamaha for bi-amping, I know the front channels will do ok (according to Yamaha) but not sure the rear channels will be ok when reassigned to a speaker with a 4 ohm load.

mesquitehead

Damn, found this on the Yamaha site "Note: When this unit is configured for 6 Ω Speakers, 4 Ω speakers can also be used as the front speakers only." I have it configured for 6ohms already cause I was running the MartinLogans which are 5 ohms. So this means no bi-amping LSI's.

Guess what I'm wondering now which speakers will be better suited to my music listening tastes? I love all I've seen/heard about the LSI's but heard they were a bit laid back...???

codyc1ark

If your going to buy the 15's your going to need an amp, plain and simple. So you have to budget that, your either going to blow up your avr or damage your speakers, if you can't swing an amp right now shoot for the Rti's. The LSi's are power hungry, keep that in mind. As always, good luck in your decision!

mesquitehead

The Yammy Aventage should dump 200wpc @ 4 ohms, may get me buy till I can swing another amp. I have a Carver TFM-25 getting ready to be sent off to be recapped so it would work.

naturallight

Well to be blunt...neither the 15's nore the 9's will sound good or play well with that Yamaha AVR. On a good day, this may put out 100watts....if your not running other speakers on it.
Both of these speakers need sepertate power amps to run them. Once you said loud....thats pretty much were it's at.
The 15's...well you will either blow them up, or blow up your AVR...the 9's will just sound like junk for strait music.
You pretty much need a 200 watt , high current seperate power amp to run these speakers to make them work for music. For HT at a controlled volume..maybe.

mesquitehead

Too bad I sold my Parasound HCA2205...but I still have that Carver TFM-25 I'm getting refurbed. Just need the Yammy to get me by till I get the Carver fixed up...350wpc @ 4 ohms.

mesquitehead

Hmmm Yamaha specs say the "surround back l/r 130w @ 4ohms", may get me by...and if I blow it up oh well I'll just have to get another one. So the consensus is LSI 15's?

mesquitehead

HA! I called Yamaha and found out that when the rear l/r channels are assigned to the front for biamping they ARE 4ohm compatable! So I could bi-amp the LSi15's and get 220w out of each channel. Still debating the LSi15's vs the Energy RC-70's now. Feedback?

tonyb

Bi-amping with a receiver for a 4 ohm speaker.....your just asking for trouble imho. Setting the receiver to 4 ohm limits the current, and the speakers need all the current you can feed them. When they say a receiver is 4 ohm worthy, most the time that switch is designed to limit the heat in the receivers poor power supply so you don't blow it up.

LSI's to me anyway are a more laid back but detailed speaker. If punch and dynamics are your priority, the 9's should do you well. Both will need an amp to do them justice, a receiver just won't cut the mustard.

jbooker82

mesquitehead wrote: »

So I could bi-amp the LSi15's and get 220w out of each channel.

That is not how it works for a couple of reasons.

#1 When you bi amp a speaker your are now powering two seperate circuits with in the same cabnet. You remove the jumpers you creat a bass circuit, and a mid / high circuit. So you still only have 110w for the low end, and 110w for the mid and highs. So you wont have the full 220 watts avalable for the full range of audio. Bass takes way more juce to produce than the highs. So you dont get to cash in on the extra wattage that the tweeters are not using because low end drivers are not in the same circuit.

#2 Now look at your A820's specs. It is only rated for 110w 2 channles driven at 1,000 HZ. That is with a single frequency tone, and with only two channles driven. When they up the test to 20-20K hz (full range audio) it drops 10 watts to 100 watts, but it is still with only two channles driven. Add a center channle the power gets slightly less, add, two surrounds for a 5 channle surround system you get less yet. Now when you bi amp your using the rear surround terminals to power part of the front L&R so your A820 is now powering a 7 channel system with only 5 speakers so you get even less wattage per channel

jbooker82

Look at the A1010 for example. Yamaha has it rated at 110 watts 2 channles driven at full range.

Home Theater Magazines bench test results.

2 Channel at 0.1% distortion is actually a little higher at 116 watts per channel 2 channels driven.

5 Channel at 0.1% distortion is a huge fall of at 53.5 watts per channel with 5 channels driven.

7 Channels at 0.1% distortion isnt much different at 52.5 watts per channel with 7 channels driven.

Here is the link to the specs.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a1010-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

mesquitehead

jbooker82 wrote: »

Look at the A1010 for example. Yamaha has it rated at 110 watts 2 channles driven at full range.

Home Theater Magazines bench test results.

2 Channel at 0.1% distortion is actually a little higher at 116 watts per channel 2 channels driven.

5 Channel at 0.1% distortion is a huge fall of at 53.5 watts per channel with 5 channels driven.

7 Channels at 0.1% distortion isnt much different at 52.5 watts per channel with 7 channels driven.

Here is the link to the specs.
http://www.hometheater.com/content/yamaha-aventage-rx-a1010-av-receiver-ht-labs-measures

Working on finding someone to fix my TFM-25 at ths very moment, my TFM-35 is staying in my shop on my Polk SDA1C's. Just sent Russ Kall an email on the TFM-25...and if he is as busy as I think he is I have another shop in mind.

Just trying to decide between the LSi15's or the Energy RC-70's for my fronts right now and it seems the 4 ohm LSi's will need more umph. Thanks!

tonyb

All good points Booker, reason being most entry to mid line receivers don't have the best power supply.....to put it nicely. Thats why with harder to drive speakers, we usually recommend an additional amp. Just trying to save some people alittle heartache and dissapointment is all from blowing a tweet or sending their receiver into protect mode.

hochpt21

naturallight wrote: »

Hochpt21...I'd be interested to know ..why you don't like the LSI 15 for loud rock. As i was thinking about getting rid of my RTi 12's for the LSI 15...but thats about what i play most of the time..plus no matter what i play..it's not at very low volumes..as i sit 15 feet back in the room.

I don't feel I get the powerfull slam that I should. They still sound very good, just not a powerfull low end with regards to bass riffs and bass pedals etc.

There are some folks on here who love the 15's for hard rock so that is just my opinion. And again, I have not heard the RTi series so maybe LSi kicks its **** for rock.

EndersShadow

hotchpt21: Do you still have the stock 8" woofer in? I ask because most of us have moved to use the db851 (I think thats the model) 8" car audio sub as suggested to doro by Polk Engineers. I myself made that change and cant even remember what the stock woofer sounded like.

For me I feel the LSi doesn't over emphasize the bass. If you dont like how much you get from it, just up it in the AVR menu. Personally the LSi 15's have enough bass that I have actually started listening mostly in "Direct Mode" which turns off the sub channel over "Stereo". I even go back and forth and hardly notice a difference most of the time unless I dial up the bass in "Stereo Mode".

The LSi's can get Club Hopping loud in my room with regards to the bass. It may not kick me personally in the chest, but Good Lord its there. My 5 channel Carver can get them to 104 db 12 feet away before it starts to run out of gas. I can only imagine how my Carver M1.0t will perform once I get it back from the shop.

hochpt21

I know...it's on my to do list. :redface:

I hooked up a sub with the system a couple weeks ago, but have since moved it back out.:sad: I did bump up the bass setting on the HK and am finding it more to my taste.

I'm not trying to talk smack about the 15's because I love them and the are very good with any kind of music. I just feel they are best at reproducing very detailed acoustical, instrumental etc... And I find myself personally, missing a little something with the rock stuff.

EndersShadow

hochpt21 wrote: »

I know...it's on my to do list. :redface:

I hooked up a sub with the system a couple weeks ago, but have since moved it back out.:sad: I did bump up the bass setting on the HK and am finding it more to my taste.

I'm not trying to talk smack about the 15's because I love them and the are very good with any kind of music. I just feel they are best at reproducing very detailed acoustical, instrumental etc... And I find myself personally, missing a little something with the rock stuff.

Gotcha. Nothing wrong with that. Synergy is a very personal decision for us all and it may not make sense to the next guy . Also finding it is a PITA so once you get it, dont let go!

P.S. I would keep in on your to-do list until you see Crutchfield have a buy one get one free or half off on Polk stuff. That way your not out a ton of coin. Also sell off the stock ones as well and you can get the upgrade for a very low cost . I wish I could have waited to do it that way. I paid full price :sad:. But I have enjoyed the pay-out immensely.

mesquitehead

EndersShadow wrote: »

hotchpt21: Do you still have the stock 8" woofer in? I ask because most of us have moved to use the db851 (I think thats the model) 8" car audio sub as suggested to doro by Polk Engineers. I myself made that change and cant even remember what the stock woofer sounded like.

For me I feel the LSi doesn't over emphasize the bass. If you dont like how much you get from it, just up it in the AVR menu. Personally the LSi 15's have enough bass that I have actually started listening mostly in "Direct Mode" which turns off the sub channel over "Stereo". I even go back and forth and hardly notice a difference most of the time unless I dial up the bass in "Stereo Mode".

The LSi's can get Club Hopping loud in my room with regards to the bass. It may not kick me personally in the chest, but Good Lord its there. My 5 channel Carver can get them to 104 db 12 feet away before it starts to run out of gas. I can only imagine how my Carver M1.0t will perform once I get it back from the shop.

Did you mean the Polk DB840 subwoofer?

EndersShadow

mesquitehead wrote: »

Did you mean the Polk DB840 subwoofer?

thats the one

hochpt21

Single voice coil, correct?

mesquitehead

Gracias for the sub info! :biggrin:

mesquitehead

I just wanted to thank all my fellow Polkies for the helpful feedback. I have been in love with my SDA1C's since day one and am just trying to find something for the HT that my wife will approve yet gets me close to that engaging sound the SDA's give me. I'm working on getting the old Carver amps back into play for the needed power but still have not decided on a set of towers for the HT room yet. Even considered the Energy RC-70's but it seems they are getting hard to find these days. Again, thanks guys!

EndersShadow

hochpt21 wrote: »

Single voice coil, correct?

Yes, the double voice coil would cause you some issues lol. Single voice coil only.

mesquitehead wrote: »

Gracias for the sub info! :biggrin:

NP. It is the easiest DIY upgrade to do and if you get the subs on sale and sell the stock ones you aren't out that much at all in the end. Now mod'ing the crossovers on a 15 is a PITA. Just as Trey (VR3) :razz:. He didnt realize it till he was knee deep in one hehehe.... He got it done with a great solution, but it was a bit more tricky than he imagined :biggrin:

mesquitehead

So does replacing the stock woofer with the single vc DB840 require a crossover mod or is it plug and play?

EndersShadow

mesquitehead wrote: »

So does replacing the stock woofer with the single vc DB840 require a crossover mod or is it plug and play?

Plug and play. Easy Peasey!!!