1st Order and Crossoverless Speaker Designs
parimento1
Posts: 15
What are the pros and cons of these designs? I know Thiel uses 1st-order networks exclusively and Anthony Gallo uses no crossovers in many of his speakers.
Post edited by parimento1 on
Comments
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Dont know about thiel but gallo has never used crossovers in his wine.Main Rig:
Krell KAV 250a biamped to mid/highs
Parasound HCA1500A biamped to lows
Nakamichi EC100 Active xover
MIT exp 1 ic's
Perreaux SA33 class A preamp
AQ kingcobra ic's
OPPO 83 CDP
Lehmann audio black cube SE phono pre, Audioquest phono wire (ITA1/1)
Denon DP-1200 TT. AToc9ML MC cart.
Monster HTS 3600 power conditioner
ADS L1590/2 Biamped
MIT exps2 speaker cable -
Unless the speaker has drivers specifically made for shallow slopes, they can sound pretty horrid. Tannoy and Thiel have drivers made for these specific applications. But if you saw a Thiel crossover, you'd be shocked to see how many parts they do indeed use...
Just curious, why do these designs interest you? The average(not Tannoy or Thiel) 1st order/crossoverless speakers have high levels of 2nd order distortion. Which isn't offensive like 3rd order, but adds colorations and sound similar speakers made 30+ years ago, before the golden age of measurements and speaker crossover design."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche -
They interest me for their simplicity. And the fact I've never heard any. Something like these Hemp Acoustics would be a nice place for someone to get their feet wet for $100/pr. Maybe?
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lgb/ele/3213838340.html
"These speakers are a project of mine from a few years ago. They use a Hemp Acoustics 8" full-range driver in a bass-reflex cabinet. No crossovers are used or needed. Great speaker for the audiophile or hobbyist to tinker with. With a little EQ they sound very good with lots of detail and good imaging. They are very efficient and require very few watts to sing.
I also have a little T-amp I can sell with these for a few more bucks.
Moving so need to sell soon.
Email me any questions. Thanks!"
--Gary--
Onkyo Integra M504, Bottlehead Foreplay III, Denon SACD, Thiel CS2.3, NHT VT-2, VT-3 and Evolution T6, Infinity RSIIIa, SDA1C and a few dozen other speakers around the house I change in and out. -
If you don't mind a very small sweet spot, go for it. They can sound nice with certain kinds of music."He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster. And when you gaze long into an abyss the abyss also gazes into you." Friedrich Nietzsche
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Vandersteens use a first-order x-over. I suggest an audition of a couple of their models.
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Some of the Heritage Klipsch also use 1st order. I'm running a modified Klipsch Type A crossover right now on my corner horns, and they sound great; the XO uses only one inductor, two caps, and an autotransformer. However, on the same speakers, I've heard that the ALK extreme slope crossover also sound very good, and those crossovers weight about 20lbs a piece.
It's all about the interactions between drivers, frequency response, and what you are try to achieve. I know that since Focal manufacturer all their drivers to the specs they want, they tend to use smaller crossovers because they don't have to correct or adjust for unwanted driver responses from third party manufacturers.
