Fully discrete power amplifiers

Nimonie

Fully discrete power amplifiers for all 7 channels. It is the only difference I can see between the Denon AVR-3312cl and the avr-3313cl other than the 4k video upscaling. Can someone let me know what it actually means. I havent been able to find anything reliable on the internet but I am trying to find out if its worth the $450 or so difference in price. I know the 3313 is the newer model but if there is no real drastic difference in the 2 devices I could sure use the extra $450 on an amp or something else.

rebuy

The 3312 has discrete power like the 3313.

nhhiep

The first thing that came to my mind is each channel has it's own caps. They only share the main Powersupply

sponger

Nimonie wrote: »

Fully discrete power amplifiers for all 7 channels. It is the only difference I can see between the Denon AVR-3312cl and the avr-3313cl other than the 4k video upscaling. Can someone let me know what it actually means. I havent been able to find anything reliable on the internet but I am trying to find out if its worth the $450 or so difference in price. I know the 3313 is the newer model but if there is no real drastic difference in the 2 devices I could sure use the extra $450 on an amp or something else.

According to Denon's site, both receivers have what Denon calls "discrete power amplifiers." The term "fully discrete" is not used to describe either. So, I don't think there's any difference at all in amplifier design. But, no one really expects their receivers to produce anything close to their rated power. Bunch of threads on this subject if you dig enough.

However, that doesn't mean they won't push a pair of entry-to-mid-level 8 ohm towers to the satisfaction of modest expectations. I have them biwired to a pair of Monitors 70s and they sound great -- terrific, even.

Noticeable differences between the 3312ci and the 3313ci? Denon's website has all of the answers to that question. Off hand, it looks like Denon wanted the xx13 line to have the latest in app technology. I know that the 3312ci is a "smart" receiver, but the 3313ci is heavily marketed as being "smarter." That's probably something you'll want to further investigate for yourself.

I haven't done a firmware update yet. I've read it's risky to do firmware updates over a wireless connection. I'm not sure if there's any truth to that. Otherwise, I am a happy 3312CI owner. Hope that helps.

F1nut

Denon seems to indicate separate power supplies for all 7 channels. However, at 26.5 lbs. that's nothing more than marketing BS. Hell, I've got CD and CD/SACD players that weigh more than that.

Emlyn

The MSRP on the newer unit is $100 higher than the previous model. As is typical with receivers now, a newer model has more up to date processing and network integration features.

With the Denons it looks like the amp sections are the same for the 3312 and 3313, which is fortunate because sometimes in the past receiver manufacturers have added features and gone with a weaker power supply for the amp section for around the same price. There doesn't seem to be much new technology in the 3313. One consideration though, is that Denon may have been pushing the technological envelope with the 3312's features and the 3313 may have a more stable firmware set. I'd check on AVS Forum to see if this might be the case, as Denon receivers have tended to have had a lot of complaints about firmware glitches in recent years.

The main difference between the two seems to be the 4K video processing. That may or may not matter to someone a couple years down the road, but it doesn't matter now. All the other meaningful features, connections, etc seem to be the same between the two. If you plan on spending big bucks in future for a 4K display, you might want to get the newest model.

I think what Denon means by "discrete" or "fully discrete" is that a single channel has its own circuit after the main power supply and, no matter which of the seven it is, could put out a full powered signal within the limits of the receiver's power supply if a user wanted to make it do so. In real world usage, it's nothing special since the receiver is still limited to drawing power from a single small power supply.

My recommendation is that if you don't mind not having the latest networking and video processing because you won't use those features, go for the 3312. There are listings around for them on closeout from authorized dealers for $799 or less.

Nimonie

Thank you everyone for all the great information I really appreciate it. I think I will be going with the 3312 as I can see no real nead for the 3313 anytime in the near future if I do get to the point where i need it I can always buy a new one and move the 3312 into the shop or other room in the house. You can never have to much music :cheesygrin:

blairfrischx

Nimonie wrote: »

Fully discrete power amplifiers for all 7 channels. It is the only difference I can see between the Denon AVR-3312cl and the avr-3313cl other than the 4k video upscaling. Can someone let me know what it actually means. I havent been able to find anything reliable on the internet but I am trying to find out if its worth the $450 or so difference in price. I know the 3313 is the newer model but if there is no real drastic difference in the 2 devices I could sure use the extra $450 on an amp or something else.

"Fully discrete" could mean that it doesn't use any integrated circuits (chips). Instead, it will use a series of FETs to achieve amplification. It tends to be more expensive and laborious to go with a fully discrete design, which is why it will cost more. As for if it's worth it, that's up to you.

It could also mean that each board is functionally separate from each other one. They may all share a power transformer, but filter sections and all signal-carrying sections will be separate.

mesquitehead

The 3313 was quickly released due to the fact that there were lots of bugs with the 3312, the 3313 has the firmware stuff all worked out. (Get A Yamaha)

sponger

Thought I should mention that my 3312CI crashed last night. Since buying it new from a local store, it did have a few bugs like not being able to switch sources after extended use and some negligible problems with the USB player -- problems that the 1612 did not have. Still, I got such a great deal on it and it sounded so much better than the 1612 that I was willing to overlook these issues.

But, last night it simply crashed and would not shut down with the remote or with the power button on the unit itself. Had to unplug it to get it restarted and working again. I has 3 -4 inches above and around it with a huge fan blowing onto and it does not get warm at all even after extended use. So, I'm ruling out heat as the problem.

I plan to do a hard reset of the processor and then a firmware update and hopefully that will take care of the problem.

Nimonie

Thank you all for the information I greatly appreciate all your knowledge.

F1nut

We're here to help. Hmmmmm, where have we heard that before?

whitecamaross

i have had vast experience wih receivers. i have owned from the denon 5808 (which is in my opinion the BEST receiver ever of any manufacturer), pioneer elite, onkyo 3007, denon 3808, etc etc. I can honestly tell you that denon makes great receivers, but i would go with the 3313 because the 3312 does seem to have alot of issues..

pitdogg2

F1nut wrote: »

We're here to help. Hmmmmm, where have we heard that before?

Stalin?

tonyb

pitdogg2 wrote: »

Stalin?

Nope....a tad closer to home.

whitecamaross

that was funny