Bought a dual CS5000 TT at a yard sale.

bigsexy1 · October 2003

Is that model any good? It also has an Ortofron cartridge in it. I know very little about them. Help me out here boys. Is it a keeper, or a waste of cash? Until that, I had no turntable at all, even though I do have quite a few records in great condition. Still haven't hooked it up yet. Will probably do that this weekend.

tonyv1 · October 2003

Definitely a KEEPER!
I've owned various Dual TT over the years. I'm running a CS508 and my best friend is giving me a 741Q. I've also got a Denon DP2000 TT.

section19 · October 2003

Nice

http://compassnet.com/concept/tables/5000.htm

I was just complaining in another thread about how long it will be before I can upgrade my TT. Damn, I need to start cruising the garage sale circuit.

Tour2ma · October 2003

bs1,

Nice nab. Probably worth going through cleaning and lubing before putting it into fulltime service.

Also a stylus guage is a handy, as many tracking force adjustments are "estimates". Anti-skate is a bit trickier, and normally less accurate, without a good test record, but is doable with a little patience and an LP you don't mind putting in jeopardy.

But be especially wary of the cartridge as it's stlyus may be worn and damage those vinyl beauties of yours. Happen to have a microscope handy?

bigsexy1 · October 2003

Thanks everybody. Section, that's it, that's the one. I gave $50 for it, and then later wondered if I overpayed for it. I saw it and bought it simply because I vaguely remembered a thread I saw somewhere here on this Polk site about someone giving someone a recommendation to buy any used Dual turntable off of ebay.

T2M, what should I do? Look in the yellow pages and see if I can find anyone who works on them, take it in to them and have them give it a good once over?

The people I got it from claim that they bought it new in '92, that they gave $500 for it and then bought a new cartridge for it for over $100 more, that they hadn't even used it in over 10 years, and that it had been simply sitting in their garage all that time. I'm starting to think they weren't entirely truthful about it now, because I noticed from Section's link that it was only made up through '90, and that it came with a cartridge. It was dusty around where the glass sits on top of the platter, but other than that, it looked pratically brand new. Should I get a new cartridge for it? If so, what are some recommendations.

Again, thanks everybody. I know absolutely nothing about turntables. I haven't even had one in about 20 years or so, and even then, it was just a linear tracking Technics. I've never had one that could be considered good, or at least halfway decent. I take it this one actually isn't too bad?

section19 · October 2003

I agree that you should probably at the very least replace the stylus. It may need a new belt also, which shouldn't be very expensive. I would guess less than $10 on line.

Did it come with a service or owners manual? If not, and you are a real do-it-yourselfer, you can go to http://www.manualgenius.com and get the original service manual and owners manual for $7.99. They will show you how to clean, maintain and set up everything on it.

But considering how little you paid for it, you could spend another $100 getting it cleaned and set up at your local audiophile store and still come out ahead.

So, check out the above site if you want. Even if you have someone else do the work it's still nice to have the original manuals in case you ever want to look anything up.

RuSsMaN · October 2003

You got a great table, at a fair price.

The 5000 was basically an upgraded 505, better s/n ratio, low wow and flutter, microprocessor controlled, etc....

I've heard people to suggest to stay away from Moving Coil cartridges, due to the low-mass tonearm not being a good 'mechanical' match.

Welcome to the world of vinyl!!!

Cheers,
Russ

Tour2ma · October 2003

Good advice S19...

bs1,
At $50, I'd say you got a deal... the 5000 is a past TOTL by Dual. Beats my old 1229, which was a very nice TT in its day.

If all functions are working and the arm moves freely (gimbel bearings can corrode), with a manual you should be able to do all the basic maintenance with no issues. Sewing machine oil, very available, will serve well as a lubricant.

For the belt, if it still is a snug fit and is not cracking, it's still usable. A good cleaning with denatured (not isopropyl) alcohol followed by a dusting with talcum powder should do. Also clean the drive and slave pulleys with the alcohol.

Again, on the stylus, if you don't have access to a microscope, your local audio shop should, if they handle TT's. All you are looking for is wear, which will show as a lack of symetry in the sides of the stylus tip.

If it's worn, a replacement stylus might be avaialble, but a new cartridge might be a better choice. What Ortophon do you have?

RuSsMaN · October 2003

Just fyi, the stock cart that shipped with the 5000 was the Ortofon OM20. A couple recommended carts are the Audio Technica AT110E and Goldring G1042.

Cool tip on the belt Tour, just curious - why denatured over isopropyl?

bigsexy1 · October 2003

Thanks everybody. I think the best thing for me to do would be to just take it into a shop and let them check it out. I'd be afraid I'd screw something up on it. Upon closer examination of the cartridge, it says Ortofon X3-MC. I take it that really must not be the cartridge that it came with, and that the MC must mean moving coil? Should I get a different cartridge entirely?

Tour2ma · October 2003

Both effectively degrease/ de-oil the belt and surfaces, but isopropyl attacks the rubber and will swell/ soften/ weaken it. Must have a solvent property denatured lacks.

What's cool is the talc adds some grit for "improved traction". Most belt wear is from slippage on the drive pulley. Very little wear occurs during smooth operation.

Also is advised that belts are removed/ relaxed during extended periods of disuse.

Nice retrieve on the cart's, Russ. Gotta see your audio encyclopedia sometime... or are all the tidbits you drag out seemingly at will straight out of the generously sized mellon of yours?

I'd add a nice NOS Shure V-15 type IV or V-MR to your list. I used and was pleased with both on my old 1229. See then on ebay every now and then in the $50 to $100 range. Unfortunately Shure no longer makes the replacement stylus for the IV, though. The Type III's works in the IV, but lacks the dynamic balancer.

Tour2ma · October 2003

Jumped in on me there, bs1.

May mean moving coil, and if it does, then stylus replacement is not a DIY option... Manufacturers re-tip MC's, but not cheap and may not be available for yours...

tonyv1 · October 2003

Found this info from The Needle Doctor about your cartridge:
http://shopping.netledger.com/s.nl/c.ACCT106601/sc.2/category.378/it.A/id.287/.f

section19 · October 2003

If the cartridge is moving coil you should check and make sure your receiver/pre-amp can work with an MC cartridge. I believe many units (and even some lower priced phono pre-amps) are designed to only accept moving magnet cartridges.

I don't know what you'll be running it through so it may not be an issue.

I know my 1803 has it right in the manual that it will only run turntables with MM carts.

Tour2ma · October 2003

Quite true, S19, but there are high output MC's and per the link tony posted this Ortophon is one of them...

section19 · October 2003

That's cool. I had trouble getting into Tony's link so I knew my post might be moot depending on what it said there.

bigsexy1 · October 2003

All right, now I'm more confused than ever about all of this. After reading Tony's link about the cartridge, assuming that it is OK, should I still replace it anyway for a moving magnet cartridge as russ suggested? Or simply keep the cartridge that's on it, especially since I noticed from the link that it is $275 new?

My Adcom 2 channel pre-amp can handle a moving coil cartridge, for whatever that's worth. That's not even an issue. So the primary concern is the low mass tone arm on the Dual with a mc cartridge, although according to the link, it is a very light weight mc cartridge.
If I should get a new mm cart. for it, should I get the Ortofon like originally came on it, or the AT or Goldring that's been rec. for it?

BTW, the link for where russ must have found that info is
www.hi-fiworld.co.uk/hfw/oldeworldehtml/dualCS5000tt.html

Again, thanks for the help so far. I am totally lost in the woods when it comes to turntables.

RuSsMaN · October 2003

Amazing what a google search on 'dual cs5000' will do, ain't it?

I don't agree with his personal opinions on the sound (what he portrayed as a down-side to the table).

Cheers,
Russ

Tour2ma · October 2003

bs1,
First, determine the condition of the stylus, if for no other reason than to determine it's value. Send it to me, and I'll be happy to do so...

An arm and cartridge must be high mass (and therefore high inertia) compared to the cantilever to minimize cartridge movement with the cantilever.

Key to why this MC may work with a relatively low mass arm may be the differences the link sites between this Ortophon and classic MC's.

The powerful Samarium Cobalt magnet weighs a mere 0.45 gram, a fraction of the normal two grams found in the average cartridge. While the pole pieces in most MC designs usually consist of as many as three of even four separate metal parts, the Ortofon X Series employs a single iron yoke encircling the magnet and weighing a negligible 0.35 grams.

In other words, this is a low mass MC.

So if it's stylus is in good shape, give it a try. You can always go MM hunting later...

EDIT: Memo to self...
Think serach engine more consistantly and you can be as "smart" as Russ...

bigsexy1 · October 2003

Originally posted by Tour2ma
[

EDIT: Memo to self...
Think serach engine more consistantly and you can be as "smart" as Russ... [/B]

Yeah, then you too can act like you knew what you were talking about all along from actual experience, ie. "I've heard....".

Anyways, as I understand it, what you are saying is that the current cart. already on it (Ortofon X3 MC) should be ok to use (because my pre-amp can handle a mc cart.), just so long as the stylus itself is still ok, that the particular mc model I have is so much lighter in weight than they normally are, that it will not provide any problems for the low mass tonearm on the Dual. Is that correct?

In any case, which is just flat out better, MMs or MCs? I think I vaugely remember something about that MCs are supposed to be better, but that for rock and roll music, that MMs are actually better. Is there anything to that, or am I way off base here?

bigsexy1 · November 2003

Well, something is wrong with it. I hooked it up yesterday just to test it out and put it through it's paces (I used an old scratched up album that was too far gone anyway so it wouldn't have mattered if the stylus was bad and hurt it even worse), and it won't play through the right channel. Only the left side was producing any sound. Just in case it was in the Adcom pre-amp and not the table itself, I switched it to the other Adcom pre-amp I have, and it was the exact same thing. So, the problem is
obviously in the table itself.

Any ideas what could be causing this? Is it in the cartridge itself? I checked the RCA L/R output cables that are connected to it, and the connection seems tight as there wasn't any noticeable looseness or play in it. Would this potentially cost more to repair than it's worth?

RuSsMaN · November 2003

Actually BS, I have had two dual tables and HAVE heard that, not only pertaining to your model, but others as well.

I posted the other info as an 'FYI' to avoid the fluff mentioned in the write up, and help you get straight to the issue at hand.

I certainly have an idea of what is happening now, but you probably aren't interested in what my thoughts are.

Next time, just for you - I'll post the link only and you can pull the pertinent info out - Or maybe I'll just pass on trying to help altogether.

Good luck with your table.

Tour2ma · November 2003

Understandable, Russ. I hope you took my note with the playfulness I intended...

bs1,
Time for a little VOM action. Check the continuity of the four tone arm leads... L/LG/R/RG... Will tell you, if it is a TT issue.

One thing did not mention before. Since your MC is a high output one, you may want to use the MM inputs to your pre. It's possible to overload an MC input.

Bought a dual CS5000 TT at a yard sale.

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