Computer hi-fi system

EndersShadow

Just re-found this program and it looks like it might be my best option: http://www.katoemba.net/makesnosenseatall/mpad/

EndersShadow

So here is what I am probably buying next week:

Motherboard: ASRock H67

CPU: Intel G530

I decided on this board as its got HDMI, DVI, VGA, Optical & USB 3.0. In addition the 24 pin connector is located in a location that will not interfere with the 3.5 HDD bracket that many other boards would.

The board can boot from a 2+ TB HDD if I wanted to get one later on.

Memory: G-Skill 4 gig DDR3 1333

Total cost = 162

The only add-ons will be the addtion of a Noctua NF-R8 PWM fan to replace the stock fan and a the yet to be release Noctua 95x95x37 Intel cooler. Until then I plan to hopefully use the stock fan.

Face

I've used G Skill twice and both times one stick was defective, I'd look elsewhere.

EndersShadow

Face wrote: »

I've used G Skill twice and both times one stick was defective, I'd look elsewhere.

Good to know. I will default back to Kingston or one of the other brands I personally have used.

EndersShadow

New Memory: Kingston Value 4GB

EndersShadow

The Black ITX-6 case and Pico PSU arrive tomorrow and the NFB-5 on Wednesday. I still haven't ordered the computer parts as I keep going back and forth a bit on the motherboard.

In the meantime I started another thread looking for a decent USB cable, as well as asking about the iTunes Remote App.

It appears the remote app will work on a ad-hoc network which is exactly what I will be setting up on the computer, but I need to test it once all the hardware is in and installed. Otherwise I have a couple options that might work as well, however the Remote app is the preferred method for sure.

EndersShadow

Just opened the package up

Front


Back


DIR chip (not sure which one just yet)


Sun, Moon, Earth OP Amps:


Stock Powercord - according to another forum the powercord might not be wired right internally so I will be using a stock one from a computer to start with. A Pepster Cable is probably goign to be put here eventually

heiney9

Use the 9001 DIR chipset. What player did you decide on? Be sure to use the ASIO4ALL plug-in. It's freeware and you need to DL it and "install it" in your player.

H9

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

Use the 9001 DIR chipset. What player did you decide on? Be sure to use the ASIO4ALL plug-in. It's freeware and you need to DL it and "install it" in your player.

H9

Its the NFB-5 we discussed. For the shipped price it was simply too good to pass up. The cost new with all the parts (DIR chip + 3 OP amps) and shipping was ~475. I paid considerably less :biggrin:.

P.S. the pics dont do this thing justice. Its literally half the width of the Yamaha R-300 I have on my desk and about the same height and depth.

Here are some better pics of the DIR chip thats not in the player. Any thoughts on which DIR chipset it is?

heiney9

I believe all the newer one's ship with the 9001 (unless it's a hi-rez unit). There was a time when you could choose. That looks exactly like the 9001 they had to replace in my NFB-3.

H9

TNHNDYMAN

congrats on getting the project moving forward. I hope you are thrilled with it.

Just noticed the additional signature line- guess I'm quote worthy now. I don't play well with others when tired and cranky lol....

heiney9

The player I am referring to is what audio player are you using on the computer? WINAMP, MediaMonkey, iTunes, J-River, etc.

H9

AsSiMiLaTeD

I'd say based on reading his posts he's still planning on using iTunes if he can get the remote app to work on an ad hoc network under Windows.

I would personally not recommend that approach as iTunes under Windows is an abomination, a truly horrid piece of software, somebody needs to teach those guys at Apple how to code for the Windows platform. Since I'm no longer on Windows I can't make a recommendation, but geez there's gotta be better options out there.

heiney9

I would agree Dan.

In fact, I despise iTunes, but iTunes on Windows will be a cluster. The other players I mentioned are musically much better and integrate much better.

H9

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

I believe all the newer one's ship with the 9001 (unless it's a hi-rez unit). There was a time when you could choose. That looks exactly like the 9001 they had to replace in my NFB-3.

H9

How would I know which one its using?

heiney9 wrote: »

The player I am referring to is what audio player are you using on the computer? WINAMP, MediaMonkey, iTunes, J-River, etc.

H9

I was planning on iTunes, but am open to suggestions. I need to be able to control it via some sort of remote app for playback, etc. Thats where the issues tend to be from what I have seen.

If you know of a combo, let me know I am not locked into iTunes at all on this one.

heiney9

I use a Squeezebox for the main rig and I sit at my computer for the computer rig so I change/select songs from there so I can't help you with what computer player has a remote app.

H9

AsSiMiLaTeD

As far as I know there is no way to get the best sound using iTunes on Windows. I may be wrong, but if you're on Windows and want the best sound I think you need to avoid iTunes. This is the main reason I suggested the Mac Mini option - iTunes in the Mac world is actually quite good, you get the remote access you want, and you have several options like Amarra and Audirvana on the Mac platform that all provide excellent, reference sound quality.

I'm not saying it's the only option that gives you what you want, it's just the one I know of.

EndersShadow

Dumb question, but can I just install the Mac OS instead of Windows and call it a day? Or will I get screwed because my hardware isnt Apple approved?

I still haven't actually installed anything anywhere so I can adjust the OS if thats in my best interest.

EndersShadow

heiney9 wrote: »

The player I am referring to is what audio player are you using on the computer? WINAMP, MediaMonkey, iTunes, J-River, etc.

H9

H9 lookie what I just found: http://www.mediamonkey.com/addons/browse/item/monkeymote/

stretchl

EndersShadow wrote: »

Dumb question, but can I just install the Mac OS instead of Windows and call it a day? Or will I get screwed because my hardware isnt Apple approved?

Just my intuition as I've never tried it, but I'd be shocked if you can install a Mac OS onto any hardware that's non-Apple.

If you do try it, I'll be very interested in the results! :eek:

FTGV

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

As far as I know there is no way to get the best sound using iTunes on Windows.

JPlay is said to allow bit perfect output from iTunes on a windows machine but IMO that money would be better spent on the excellent JRiver MC17(soon to 18)player.There are several remote apps available such as RiverMote,MyRiver and a version of monkeymote posted above for J River.It's the one I use on my iPod touch and it works well.

FTGV

EndersShadow wrote: »

How would I know which one its using?


.

Look for the number on the top of the multipin surface mount IC.However if you are using the USB input the quality of the DIR is of little value unless the USB chips output is converted to SPDIF internally then sent to the DIR instead of preferably
bypassing it entirely and using the more desirable I2S connection directly to the dac chip.

EndersShadow

FTGV wrote: »

Look for the number on the top of the multipin surface mount IC.However if you are using the USB input the quality of the DIR is of little value unless the USB chips output is converted to SPDIF internally then sent to the DIR instead of preferably
bypassing it entirely and using the more desirable I2S connection directly to the dac chip.

Ok, thats WAAAAYY above my head lol. Here is some info from the manufacture page (located here with some schematics and pics). I see some mention maybe of what your talking about in the section I bolded.

__________________________________________________________________________
NFB means Non-Feedback.

The NFB-5 applies the newest high-end dual WM8741 which can support up to 24Bit/192KHz input. Similar to other WM8741 designs, the NFB-5 applies Non-feedback ACSS output stage. The dual WM8741 feed to the ACSS output stage without any OPAs so it can achieve very neutral sound quality.

The ACSS is a non-feedback technology made with fully discrete amplifiers. Most people know the global feedback design can offer better specs in test measurements, and non-feedback can't do well in test measurements but can offer better sound for the human's ears. Here is a conflict of the classic circuits. But the ACSS opens a new field, it can offer a least coloration sound which is more neutral with very low distortion and high linearity. So it can retain the dynamics, detail and neutral sound but not sound bright or harsh.

The output buffers are Non-feedback. For low impedance, we applied a diamond output stage which is quite less colored than most conventional circuits.

The DAC is without couple caps to avoid coloration.

The 24/192 USB interface outputs a I2S signal to dual WM8741.

Applied the WM8805 as the SPDIF interface , its sound characteristic is same with the WM8741 which is detail but smooth, and it can support up to 192KHz input. The WM8805 had quite low jitter (50PS),much less than the CS8416 ( 200PS ).

Fully Discrete ACSS headphone amp.

NFB-5 applies the excellent dual WM8741 and excellent analog output stages, but these are not the only keys of the best sound. The power supply is most important. Even applying the best DA chip and the best amp, if matched to a normal power supply, the total sound may still be average or sound musical but can't be neutral and detailed. That is why it is easy to find hi-end grade gears maybe without the best chips or amp stages, but with plenteous dedicated DC supply circuits.

The NFB-5 uses 8 groups of high-quality PSU with dedicated DC supply. Digital and analog voltages each have separately isolated internal power regulations.

The analog power supply is more important for sound reproduce, in NFB-5, the +15V and -15V for the ACSS analog output stages are high speed Discrete PSU. They can offer pure and quick power supply for driving the headphone exactly. The high voltage power supply can drive most headphone from 15 to 600 ohms as well.

Strong power supply. 8 groups high performance PSU built in.


About volume in ACSS circuits:

For a headphone amp, the volume control is very important.

NFB-5 uses ACSS technology, which is very different from conventional technology.

The volume control is is placed at the ACSS modules output, where the output is the current signal, not the voltage signal. The volume control is I/V conversion, and the volume depends on the current (I) conversion to the voltage (V). (Like D/A chips output I/V conversion)

As you can see, ACSS circuits have no gain, as it is a completely different circuit.

The sound quality benefits from I/V conversion volume control. Mark Levinson also knows that current volume control has great benefits, so in their Top End preamp NO.32 volume control, they use many components to change the signal to current signal (I), then through the R-2R network to control the volume, and then change back to voltage signal (V) again. But NFB-5 is simply a more complete work in terms of the current signal, and technically, it is superior to conventional technology.

FTGV

EndersShadow wrote: »

I see some mention maybe of what your talking about in the section I bolded.

__________________________________________________________________________


The 24/192 USB interface outputs a I2S signal to dual WM8741.

Thats exactly what I was referring to.Since the output of the USB chip is connected in the prefered I2S method directly to the DAC chip the DIR section is effectively bypassed avoiding an unnecessary SPDIF conversion step.

EndersShadow

FTGV wrote: »

Thats exactly what I was referring to.Since the output of the USB chip is connected in the prefered I2S method directly to the DAC chip the DIR section is effectively bypassed avoiding an unnecessary SPDIF conversion step.

Cool so the DIR chip only matters if using Coaxial or SPDIF is what your telling me correct? If thats the case we are all good since I will be using USB almost exclusively.

FTGV

EndersShadow wrote: »

Cool so the DIR chip only matters if using Coaxial or SPDIF is what your telling me correct?.

Correct.

MADGSF

Enders, the new MAC OSX is for Intel based hardware and you can put it on non-Apple hardware. Not sure how happy Apple is about that but do a search for building a Hackintosh or Blackintosh and you will find several sources of information. I have not done it but have thought about it, FYI you can get OSX from Applie on a USB for about 80.00.

http://www.hackintosh.com/

This has a step by step with a list of the hardware used.

http://www.motherboards.org/gallery/building-blackintosh-let-us-show-you-everything-you-need

nwohlford

AsSiMiLaTeD wrote: »

I'd say based on reading his posts he's still planning on using iTunes if he can get the remote app to work on an ad hoc network under Windows.

I would personally not recommend that approach as iTunes under Windows is an abomination, a truly horrid piece of software, somebody needs to teach those guys at Apple how to code for the Windows platform. Since I'm no longer on Windows I can't make a recommendation, but geez there's gotta be better options out there.

They are not going to write better software for windows. They want to give you a taste of the apple experience, but to get the really thing they will make you buy a Mac.

MADGSF wrote: »

Enders, the new MAC OSX is for Intel based hardware and you can put it on non-Apple hardware. Not sure how happy Apple is about that but do a search for building a Hackintosh or Blackintosh and you will find several sources of information. I have not done it but have thought about it, FYI you can get OSX from Applie on a USB for about 80.00.

http://www.hackintosh.com/

This has a step by step with a list of the hardware used.

http://www.motherboards.org/gallery/building-blackintosh-let-us-show-you-everything-you-need

Every Apple update may break your "hackintosh", so you have to be very careful. There are whole forums dedicated to what updates are safe to use and what are not. To me it always seemed like a lot of hassle to save a little money (unless you enjoy the part I am calling a hassle).

EndersShadow

FTGV wrote: »

Correct.

Awesome! Thanks for walking me through that :redface:

nwohlford wrote: »

They are not going to write better software for windows. They want to give you a taste of the apple experience, but to get the really thing they will make you buy a Mac.

Every Apple update may break your "hackintosh", so you have to be very careful. There are whole forums dedicated to what updates are safe to use and what are not. To me it always seemed like a lot of hassle to save a little money (unless you enjoy the part I am calling a hassle).

I think I will go Windows based since I am just too familiar with the way it works from a hardware and software perspective. I am leary of Apple for the exact reason you mention. I dont want to be constantly troubleshooting this computer once its built. I found a couple apps that look promising and I dont need this to be up and running for a bit so I have time to play around with functionality once the OS is installed.

I ended up modifying the parts list so I figured I would update everyone with the new parts list:

CPU (same as before)
Intel Celeron G530

Hard Drive:
Re-using a 320 gig existing one for now, will upgrade to bigger quieter 2.5HDD later

Case:
HTPC-ITX6

The case is at my house along with the powersupply. I was missing a piece of the 12v AC DC adapter that is being mailed to me as we speak. It is RIDICULOUSLY small. It even surprised me. Its actually smaller than the NFB-5 but just by about 2 inches depth wise. Otherwise the finish and color match identically.

Motherboard (changed)
JetWay JI61G-ITX

This motherboard has the combination of what I need. When I looked at and held the actual case in my hand I could see there would be an issue with ANY motherboard that had the 24pin connector in the standard location in front of the memory slots. As such this board has the 24 pin toward the back which also will put the Pico PSU close or directly in line with the 80mm fan on the case. The H61 heatsink is also located here so I should be able to keep my case nice and cool.

Its got 4 HDD connectors so I could actuall repurpose this motherboard in another case for a file server or bigger music player if the need arises. It has a CPU and 3 pin fan header as well as HDMI, DVI, VGA and 2 USB 3.0 connectors. The only thing this board is lacking that would have been nice is a eSATA port and optical and coaxial outs, all of which I dont really need in how I will use this board.

Memory
Kingston Value 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1066

This RAM was choosen primarily because of its low profile. I dont need superfast memory for my application and form trumps speed here for me. Price is in line with other memory of the same size and speed. Manufacture is well known and has a good reputation.

Extra's to be purchase later on:

Aftermarket CPU cooler: SILVERSTONE NT07-1156 90mm CPU Cooler

This cooler was choosen because its a replacement for the stock fan which requires no extra mounting bracket. I also hope to undervolt the fan so it spins slower provided the temps of the CPU in the case allow for that.

The other Noctua fan yet to hit the market will be considered once it shows up but I am not sure if it will work given the layout of the caps on the motherboard.

Aftermarket fan: Noctua NF-R8-1800 80mm Case Fan

I have 4 Noctua fans in my computer and they are dead silent. The price for the fan is justified as it will run quieter has rubber mounts to silence vibration as well as adapters to drop its RPM's. I will be playing with the different adapters as well as the bios to balance noise with temps once this is all installed

Noise dampening material: Using some existing Acoustipak from my computer build where possible to quiet this puppy

Other Misc Extra Parts:

USB cables:

I am still working on deciding what cable to play with USB wise. I am leaning toward either the Wireworld UV cable (which physically seperates the power and data parts of the USB wire internally, or going with just a stock Audioquest Carbon cable so I keep the black color combination going. I havent decided either way yet.

Powercables:

I will be utilizing a Pepster powercable for the NFB-5 that is currently in my possession. I am hoping to find a way to have the computer on the extra battery backup from Uverse that I have lying around. The intent is to possibly run the computer entirely off battery as much as possible, but I dont know. I will play around with that and tweak it as I go :biggrin:

EndersShadow

Total cost without the USB cable is ~200 shipped. Keeping the stock Intel heatsink and case fan cost is ~150.