Tube Curious

Ducati Guy

For all you tube guys,
Tell me about why you like the sound of tubes better than solid state, richer midrange?, better voices/vocals?, other reasons?
What are some of the short comings of tubes, reliability?, top end treble roll off?, how Long do the tubes last?
Are tubes better situated for jazz & classical?
Also, what's your opinion about Cayin Audio tube amps.
Would tube amps be able to drive Lsi15's?

Thanks in advance

Dawgfish

There are many reasons why I prefer tubes. You've mentioned some of them mainly being that lush,rich midrange. This is highly dependent on what type of gear and tubes you are using though. There are bad tube products out there just like there are bad ss products. Having said that, comparing a comprable quality ss product to a tube product, I almost always prefer the tubes. I already mentioned the midrange, but there is also usually deeper/wider soundstage, precise imaging, and a "the band is in the room with you" type of sound that I hear much more frequently with tube gear than ss. I find listener fatigue to be greatly reduced while listening to tubes, as the highs are generally smoother.

Some disadvantages of tube gear are less tightness and weight of bass compared to ss products (good tubes can change this however), the highs can be rolled off a little to much (again this is equipment and tube dependent, I've heard tube products that were every bit as extended and detailed in the highs as ss products), and more maintanance (biasing power tubes, replacing tubes, tubes can become microphonic).

I do find that jass, classical, vocal, and accoustical music sounds better on tubes than most ss. Tubes can still sound awesome with harder edged music, agian it depends on the gear and tubes being used. I have not heard a Cayin Amp, but I know Cayin in general has a good reputation.

A good quality tube amp that is 4 ohm stable could easily drive LSi15s and will sound awesome doing so. The thing about using tube equipment with the LSis is that the LSis are more laid back sounding, so using tubes/equipment that are a little more forward sounding (in other words modern tube sound vs the older overly rich midrange with syrupy bass and highs that are rolled off too much) is going to provide better synergy with these. Experimentation with your system and room setup is key as in any setup. Hope this helps.

heiney9

Tubes can sound more like "real life". I have heard some excellent (very expensive) solid state stuff also.

Generally the same level of tube gear vs. solid state, the tubes tend to sound better. However, I really don't care for too much of the current tubes out there. I am a prett die hard buyer of Old Stock tubes from the 50's and 60's which are built better, last longer and sound a whole lot better.

H9

soundfreak1

His will prob. screw u up rather that help but....... I like the combo of ss amps and tube pre's better. Best of both wotlds.

Dawgfish

soundfreak1 wrote: »

His will prob. screw u up rather that help but....... I like the combo of ss amps and tube pre's better. Best of both wotlds.

I agree that is a good combo. I'm running all tubes now, but I have ran that setup in the past with great success and you are right when done correctly you get the best of both worlds. I also agree with H9, NOS are defintiely the way to go in most situations.

EndersShadow

You could always try adding a tube buffer into the mix......

Dawgfish

^^Yep, that's how I got started and it all went to hell from there!^^ Hi my name is Dawg and I'm a tube addict.....

EndersShadow

Dawgfish wrote: »

^^Yep, that's how I got started and it all went to hell from there!^^ Hi my name is Dawg and I'm a tube addict.....

what buffer did you use?

Dawgfish

I started out with a Grant Fidelity B-283 with Mullard 8100s. It's been all downhill from there or uphill depending on wether we're talking bank account or sound quality. ;-)

soundfreak1

That " im a tube addict" line crackes me up!!! LMFAO

Dawgfish

Thanks! You know what they say; admission is the first step to recovery........;-)

heiney9

Gentlemen prefer tubes!

stretchl

When I bought my Luxman R-115 in 1987 or so, I nearly bought a similar Luxman tubed receiver. I loved the sound, but as I recall I couldn't afford the unit. All I remember about it is that it looked like the R-115 except that it had two little tubes mounted horizontally that you could see through the front of the unit.

Three Questions -

1) Does anyone know what Luxman item it might've been?

2) If I did indeed have it now won, would I be able to use it as a pre with my Adcom as I'm now using the R-115?

3) Would doing so make any difference, as the Adcom is solid state?

Thanks!

soundfreak1

If it was a reciever with pre outs/in yes u could use it. And any pre or amp or amp equip change in a system u make will make a diff. Good or bad is subjective however!

heiney9

Those Luxman pieces weren't receivers, they were integrated amps. The tubes were almost impossible to remove and were more of a buffer than a true tube input/driver stage. They were neat and sounded good, but just fell short of being a "real" hybrid tube integrated. Difficult to tube roll and I don't remember which tubes they used. 6GC7A I believe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-NICE-LUXMAN-LV-105U-INTERGRATED-AMPLIFIER-TUBE-PREAMP-SECTION-/251120701819?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a77f5d17b

Luxman LV-103, 105 and 107

H9

Ducati Guy

thanks guys for all the input
Now I'm curious about that tube preamp idea with my current integrated( Creek Destiny II ).
What are some good quality tube preamps you guys would recommend listening to that cost around $1,000 or less?
Would I still get all that midrange lushness via tube preamps alone with a solid state amp?

stretchl

heiney9 wrote: »

Those Luxman pieces weren't receivers, they were integrated amps. The tubes were almost impossible to remove and were more of a buffer than a true tube input/driver stage. They were neat and sounded good, but just fell short of being a "real" hybrid tube integrated. Difficult to tube roll and I don't remember which tubes they used. 6GC7A I believe.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VERY-NICE-LUXMAN-LV-105U-INTERGRATED-AMPLIFIER-TUBE-PREAMP-SECTION-/251120701819?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a77f5d17b

Luxman LV-103, 105 and 107

H9

Yep. That's the one! Thanks!

From what you said it may have not been the best purchase. Dumb luck was on my side that time...

Oldfatdogs

You might try the dared 2000a.,I picked one up recently and really like it.You will need some nos tubes to go with it.I using a Belles ss amp,they blend well.Dan

headrott

heiney9 wrote: »

Tubes can sound more like "real life". I have heard some excellent (very expensive) solid state stuff also.

Generally the same level of tube gear vs. solid state, the tubes tend to sound better. However, I really don't care for too much of the current tubes out there. I am a prett die hard buyer of Old Stock tubes from the 50's and 60's which are built better, last longer and sound a whole lot better.

H9

Cannot agree more with Brock. NOS tubes are better (depending on brand and tube type of course).

schwarcw

I admit it, I am a tube ****!

Dawgfish

Ducati Guy wrote: »

thanks guys for all the input
Now I'm curious about that tube preamp idea with my current integrated( Creek Destiny II ).
What are some good quality tube preamps you guys would recommend listening to that cost around $1,000 or less?
Would I still get all that midrange lushness via tube preamps alone with a solid state amp?

There are many quality tube preamps in your price range. I am partial to Anthem/Sonic Frontiers products, but other outstanding choices can be readily bought on the used market in your price range from Cary, Dodd, Wright, Rogue, AR, Conrad Johnson, etc. Combining a tube pre with a solid state amp can give you that lush midrange with the right brand or combination of tubes. I say give it a try, even though I have to warn you, tubes are very addictive. I"ll never do without some sort of tube gear somewhere in the chain from here on.

Dawgfish

Here is a good choice in your budget range; http://app.audiogon.com/listings/sonic-frontiers-anthem-pre-1-tube-pre-amp-with-mm-mc-phono I am running one of these and I love it! The price is tad on the high side I would see if I could get it down more in the $600-650 range and you will have an outstanding tube pre with vinyl capability.

doctorcilantro

I enjoy tubes for many of the above reasons, but also because I'm interested in how much fidelity I can squeeze out of such "outmoded" devices. I grew up collecting tube organs, then I got into various vintage tube pieces for hifi. Come to think of it, I have only owned a few SS pieces like Sansui 6060 and some modern crap. SS can sound very good. I have heard the Class DB? amps can sound amazing. I have heard very good SS sound at shows.

But tubes are sorta like the underdog to me, and they sound like the real thing. I don't roll tubes that much either, but I do have a stash.

My name is Doc Cilantro, and I'm a tube addict...

dudeinaroom

I have a tubed pre spending the weekend here mated to a parasound hca 1000a and it is sublime. To me tubes seem more real sounding, especially when guitars are in the mix. The sound stage seems to have more width and a more realistic depth, but still able to wrap around you and pull you in. Micro details and detail in general have quite a step up in presence. It also has an ability to make magic...your music seems to float on the air, but at the same time carrying more weight. All my opinion from the last 2 days of listening.

gigbyt

tubes will drain your bank account but its fun to toob roll.

gigbyt

Thjere is some good budget toob gear out there though.

mhardy6647

I like the way they glow in the dark and roast one's flesh when one touches 'em...